CK25 HST up to the tasks?

Kodiak_Dave · Jul 16, 2004

OK, So we have witnesses who claim that there are 25 and 30 HST models available to deliver. Yoyo got his last Friday. There is now a thread about how much power a 25HST can deliver to the drive train when pushing or pulling, like when you want a full bucket of rock or clay or gravel. I sure don't want to pay 17 grand for a tractor package and 2 grand shipping to find out I am under powered as far as moving materials goes. I have been looking at the Mahindra 2615 HST and the Kioti CK25 HST. I Like the Kioti better but that's just looking at it on the Internet as I don't have any dealers for around two thousand miles and I can't go look at them. The other thing I can't do is compare the difference between a CK20 and a CK25 so if any of you have a picture with both in it let me see it. When the tread about using the loader was discussed there was no mention of how wide the bucket was. I had the following package under consideration. CK25HST with KL130 60 " bucket and a KB2375. Could the bucket be too wide? My property is only 2 acres but it is hilly with some low wet area's. In fact in rains here 70" a year so wet soil is a given. I want to move snow, clean up after two horses, dig drain trenches and landscape. Having the horses get me out of needing to mow the lawn. If any of you checked out the Mahindra 2615 let me know what you liked more about the CK's. Touch testing is still better than any technology.
Thanks all
Dave K

GerardC · Jul 16, 2004

Personally, I think you could get away with a CK20. I've done all that you say you would/will be doing and the CK20 would definitely fit the bill. Consider the weight of the machine also. If you've got a lot of soft spots, a little lighter machine may be better. There are a lot of things to consider, so keep asking but more important, read, read, read. There's a tremendous amount of knowledge on this forum. Good luck. G

KiotiJohn · Jul 16, 2004

One thing about buying the CK25 over a CK20 is that the KL130 loader available for the 25 is a much better built loader. I have seen one at my dealer's. It comes with a brush guard, and has metalized hydro tubing on the loader instead of hoses which will be more durable and help to dissipate heat better.

The larger backhoe that you can put on the 25 will be better as well (7.5' vs 6.5').

I looked at the Mahindra, and it was a very nice tractor. I couldn't take the dealer though, so I didn't get too deep in that one.

The difference I like about the Kioti is that they make their own tractor, a lot of interchangeable parts between the CK25 and 30 and maybe even some of the DKs so parts are cheaper and easier to get.

With a lot of rebadged or OEM tractors as Mahindra, there can be a lot of different parts within any given model, and down the road you may have a little more difficulty getting the exact part you need. Before anyone jumps on this one, there have been MANY posts about this on TBN. Even John Deere Folks have talked about this with their CUTS made from parts from different countries. Check out the few posts about when someone has needed a Kioti part, and you will see that they are very inexpensive and easy to get also.

All of that said, most Mahindra owners appear to be VERY happy with their purchases and they're probably wonderful tractors.

Some comparisons between the CK and the Mahindra: the 3pt lift capacity is a little more on the Mahindra (IF they're measuring from 24" aft the hitch). The Kioti has a much better hydraulic flow (12.7gpm v 7.8), Mahindra has a slightly higher PTO HP (21.1 v 19.5), A little better turning radius for Mahindra (which may be important on your property), Kioti tire size is much bigger (better to me), Kioti a little wider (better stability).

I haven't had an opportunity to compare the CK25/30 with my CK20, so I can't say that it would be a great step up from the 20, rather, I can only imagine that 5 more HP and a larger frame would really set off what I know my 20 can already do. Also, there would be 3 ranges in which to operate which I've often thought would be nice on the 20. I don't know if any of this helps, but I hope it does. John
EDIT: One thing about the tires is that Mahindra only had a listing with turf tires so that's what I used for the comparison. J

Kodiak_Dave · Jul 16, 2004

Thanks for the replys. The tire size is well taken although when I talked with the Mahindra dealer R4 tires were all he ordered. If I remember right, the CK25 weighs 1000 pounds more than the CK20. That five extra horses may be doing nothing but moving the extra weight. As far as the LEL bucket goes, that's a big issue for me. I want a decent sized bucket but.... I don't want to bog the machine with a bucket that's too big. Is the 60" bucket too big for the CK25 when moving dirt, clay, gravel? I wonder what size Yoyo put on his rig?

Bob_Skurka · Jul 16, 2004

Personally I would not touch a CK25. The CK20 appears to be a great small frame tractor. Most companies that make small frame tractors that compete with the CK20 also use the same frame size and go up in horsepower. In the case of Kioti, they go up in frame size, weight, and HP and I would suspect that the CK25 might feel underpowered under more conditions than the CK20 would. If it was me (again this is my opinion) I would look at either the CK20 or the CK30 and totally ignore the CK25. I generally like the Kioti tractors, but the CK25 seems to be too little power on too much frame/weight. Take the CK20 and put a 25hp engine in it and you'd have a really powerful little beast. Add 1000# and I think you dilute the hp advantage.

Also, given your lot size and your tasks, I think you might be better served with a CK20 or similar size/power machine. I don't know how easy it would be to clean a barn with a medium frame CUT, but I use a Kubota B2910 and a NH TC24D and in tight spaces I much prefer the TC24. The CK20 is roughly the size of the TC24. The CK25 is roughly the size of the B2910. There is a 60" bucket on the B2910 and a 54" bucket on the TC24, the 30hp B2910 with the larger bucket seems underpowered from time to time. The loader specs/capacities on the smaller NH 12LA loader and the larger Kubota LA402 loader are very similar to each other on paper. The specs/capacities on the Kioti 120 loader seems to be just under the specs of the NH 12LA loader, the specs of the Kioti 130 loader, seem to be better than the NH 12LA loader, but you have to step up in frame size to the larger Kioti to get the 130 loader. Stepping up to the next size NH TC29 and the 14LA loader seems to be higher capacity than the Kioti 130 loader. But again, I don't see any reason why you'd want to clean out a barn with a CK25/30 or a TC29 if the CK20 size machine would give you enough power to do what you need, and in a smaller tighter turning machine that would be easier to use inside tight spaces.

So if it was me, I'd look at the CK20, the Kubtota B7510, the NH TC21, the Farmall DX21 and all the other 20/21hp tractors from all the manufacturers like Mahindra, Deere, Massey, etc. I will say that of all of them, if loader work is a very high priority, the NH, Farmall and Kioti have the better designed loaders. The loaders on the NH & Farmall (are identical exept for paint color) and are slightly superior in capacity to the Kioti loader from what I can see from the specs on the website.

RMAL · Jul 16, 2004

Just ordered the 130 loader,the dealer states the 130 are comming in with 54 inch buckets.
Al

Bob_Skurka · Jul 16, 2004

The 130 loader would probably be a good match for a 54" bucket. I have a 54" bucket on my 12LA and it is a good combination, same bucket size and a bit more power would be great, which is what the 130 loader would provide.

However for the uses posted in the original post, I still think a CK20 size machine might be a better match for the tasks needed and the property size.

yoyo · Jul 16, 2004

Hi Dave, I have the KL130 with a 60" bucket. It was supposed to be a 54" but he made the mistake and let me have it at the same price. John, it does not have a built in brush guard, nor does it have metal hoses. What I like about the bucket size is if it clears an object with the bucket, the rear tires just do clear and so does the 60" rmm. The CK30 offers 5 more HP for $1700. If I had to do it again, I would look more closely at a CK30 Shuttle Shift with the draft control option ($?) That would probably be priced around $14500. The HST added about $700 to the price over the gear drive on the CK25. I like being able to spin around on a dime using the rear brakes, but this is impossible on the HST models. Also, the CK20 , being a bit smaller, can probably turn a tighter circle.

David
YOYO

shoppintractors · Jul 16, 2004

the 3pt lift capacity is a little more on the Mahindra (IF they're measuring from 24" aft the hitch) 

I had previously checked with Mahindra about their 3 point lift specs. They measure "@ the lift point ends" per the email response as posted below.

The lift capacities on our (Mahindra) spec sheets is for total lift capacity at the lift point End of the lower link arms. The lift capacities at 24" behind the lift point per ASAE S349.1 are as follows:

2015--980 lbs.
2615--1653 lbs.
3015--1652 lbs.

Kioti measures 24" behind the lift point.
CK20 - 1109 lbs.
CK25 - 1764 lbs.
CK30 - 1764 lbs.

 The Kioti has a much better hydraulic flow (12.7gpm v 7.8), 

Both tractors run dual hydraulic pumps.
GPM's
Kioti CK25/30 - 12.7(total of both pumps)
Mahindra 2615 - 7.8+3.5=11.3

 One thing about the tires is that Mahindra only had a listing with turf tires so that's what I used for the comparison.

Mahindra has more complete specs on their website in PDF format which includes industrial tires. I believe the Kioti and the Mahindra share the same size industrial tires.....however the front tire sizes for the turfs and industrials are reversed from the Kioti website to the Mahindra website. ???

I have had the opportunity to sit on both the Mahindra 3015HST(to my knowledge, same frame size as 2615) and the Kioti CK30(same frame size as the CK25).

I found the CK30 to have more leg room. I could operate the HST pedal with my knee bent forward. On the Mahindra, with the seat all the way back, my knee was bent backward to operate the HST pedal.

The CK30 has a good quality adjustable spring suspension seat. The Mahindra has a standard, entry level seat.

The CK30 has the FEL control mounted on the fender, very comfortable position to operate from. The Mahindra had the FEL control lever mounted on the upright of the FEL frame. I found the handle to be short and not ergonomically comfortable.

I favor strongly the curved arm loader of the CK30 over the box arm loaders. I found the visibility on the CK30 down to the loader bucket far better than the Mahindra. My opinion, your results may vary.

side by side pictures of CK20 and CK25

Don

Kodiak_Dave · Jul 17, 2004

Thanks for the pictures Don. Very Kind of you. As I looked at them though a little confusion came to mind. Both tractors have different tires. It appears that the CK20 had turf and the CK25 has AGs. IF I got that right then at least I know which is which. What puzzles me is why it looks like the CK20 has a bigger bucket. My wife and daughter both commented on this right off. I hope your'e not offended by my question in response to your kind effort.
Thanks so much
Dave