Ceramic Clutch Discs?

[cannuck]

I have been through the wringer trying to source decent price and available parts to rebuild the E3CD-T in my M-F1440V - and after a month or so (see my posts in M-F forum IIRC) think I am ready to order final lot and put it back together. With a mighty 420 hours on the clock I would not have expected this 21 year old tractor to need a clutch disc, but it absolutely does.

Anyone have any experience with ceramic puck discs? My local M-F/Agco dealer has a domestic rebuild of this for $300 or so plus shipping (OEM ex Iseki is $600 ex EU!!!). Would like to be able to put it back together to stay that way for another 20 years (I am 75 now)

 

[TractorTech]

Ceramic puck clutch discs are commonly used in manual shuttle transmissions and are very durable. The downside is that they tear up flywheels sometimes.

Go to a clutch rebuilder shop or aftermarket. I looked in the parts book though and they only show the organic clutch disc.

I am assuming by your name that you are Canadian. I Googled: Canadian clutch disc rebuilder and came up with several.

 

[cannuck]

Ceramic puck clutch discs are commonly used in manual shuttle transmissions and are very durable. The downside is that they tear up flywheels sometimes.

Go to a clutch rebuilder shop or aftermarket. I looked in the parts book though and they only show the organic clutch disc.

I am assuming by your name that you are Canadian. I Googled: Canadian clutch disc rebuilder and came up with several.

Some things you need to understand about where I live: We are a province large enough to easily swallow TX but with population far less than San Diego. There is no cost effective shipping to where most rebuilders are (i.e. 3 days driving with the middle section single lane through the bush) and small service and manufacturing businesses gutted by outside forces. 40 years ago I could drive into town and get or have done reman on an engine, trans, clutch or brakes on a minute's notice. Today I have to stand at the counter of a chain of stores (such as the Agco dealer) and pay fifty buck for them to ship in a rebuilt part (seldom even a core option) probably made in Mexico or China.

What I might do is drive a mere 5 hours to Edmonton where I could have a new friction surface riveted on...IF they will offer same day turnaround. Good excuse to spend day or two with grandkids there. In meantime: as you suggest I will canvas locals when they open this morning - but not anticipating success.

This also brings out another memory/admission. In spite of having pulled many dozen engines/transmission I have only had to replace 2 clutches over the last 30odd years, both exactly same reasons as this tractor...bought vehicles in distress from abusive owners/drivers. My 1995 FLD120 is still on its original clutch at well over a million miles.

 

[5030]

Ceramic clutches tend to eat up the friction face on a flywheel, especially if half clutched but one nice thing about them is, they require few adjustments and the hotter they get, the better they grab. Why most commercial tractors (Class 8) have ceramic clutches and always require a resurfacing or flywheel replacement when installing a new friction disc. My Class 8 International Eagle conventional I pull a grain trailer with has a ceramic clutch and I don't ever anticipate replacing it. One, I'm not a clutch pedal rider and two, the clutch is only used when starting out from a stop. Bought it used and very well maintained and I've never had to adjust it.

Far as tractors are concerned, both mine are hydraulic shuttle units, so no dry clutch in the bell housing as all clutch related duties are hydraulically controlled.

 

[TractorTech]

Some things you need to understand about where I live: We are a province large enough to easily swallow TX but with population far less than San Diego. There is no cost effective shipping to where most rebuilders are (i.e. 3 days driving with the middle section single lane through the bush) and small service and manufacturing businesses gutted by outside forces. 40 years ago I could drive into town and get or have done reman on an engine, trans, clutch or brakes on a minute's notice. Today I have to stand at the counter of a chain of stores (such as the Agco dealer) and pay fifty buck for them to ship in a rebuilt part (seldom even a core option) probably made in Mexico or China.

What I might do is drive a mere 5 hours to Edmonton where I could have a new friction surface riveted on...IF they will offer same day turnaround. Good excuse to spend day or two with grandkids there. In meantime: as you suggest I will canvas locals when they open this morning - but not anticipating success.

This also brings out another memory/admission. In spite of having pulled many dozen engines/transmission I have only had to replace 2 clutches over the last 30odd years, both exactly same reasons as this tractor...bought vehicles in distress from abusive owners/drivers. My 1995 FLD120 is still on its original clutch at well over a million miles.

Well thanks for the clarification of where you live. Other than your username, there is no way of knowing your circumstances other than you are Canadian!

As far as the tractor goes, a cerrametalic is overkill on that tractor especially if it has a non-shuttle transmission.
An abusive user is going to tear up any clutch.

 

[cannuck]

As far as the tractor goes, a cerrametalic is overkill on that tractor especially if it has a non-shuttle transmission.
An abusive user is going to tear up any clutch.

I think the "V" in the tractor name stands for "value" - that means just regular manual gearing (that I personally greatly prefer after watching my neighbour drop $30k into his fancy gearbox only to have it crap out right away. I am pretty sure that the operators who wore the clutch literally down to the rivets in 400 hours used that pedal to moderate speed not realizing what they were doing (they are horse people, not truck guys). I have been so distracted by the engine, I had not really bothered to look closely at the flywheel and clutch cover. Turns out the flywheel is in near perfect condition and dead flat. The pressure plate, though has distorted into a 0.040" or so conical deviation - assume from being hot.

From your timely prodding, I found Edmonton Clutch & Brake that will have my disc and cover on Monday. They will rebuild everything for an estimated $450. Considering the dealer wanted about $1,200 for new, and $500 just for the disc, I am quite pleased to have someone who has done this for 40+ years take on the job to get it right. Unless they advise otherwise, will probably stay with original type friction material.


If I haven't said so yet, thanks for the timely advice.