Cedar split rail fencing

[inveresk]

I've around 1200 feet of fencing to install to segragate a horse paddock. Two sides will be post and wire but I wanted to use something a bit smarter on our boundary and driveway. I like the look of the cedar rail snake fencing which has advantages here - our ground is clay and holds the moisture all winter so posts are inclined to rot pretty quick.

I've checked a raft of online sources but can't find definitive advice on installion. So far I've discovered the obvious - that the bottom rails are best kept off the ground using rocks at the elbows and that the rails are either wired or spiked together, or both. I intended to use rebar to spike it together, predrilling so the cedar doesn't split at the ends but what's normally done to get good stiffness at the elbows?

With around 600 feet of this stuff, I wanted to install it with the angle less than 90o at the elbows as this would reduce the overall length and so save some money (and labour) but I'm not sure what I can take it down to and still remain stable. I was thinking of 30o or thereabouts which would give me a 20% saving on material. Would 30o work?

 

[mjarrels]

Cedar rail snake is hard to mow around.

mark

 

[gordon21]

Cedar split rail fencing with pre drilled posts using 10' sections and two rails costs approx $2.65 per running foot. I have installed over 700' this year with excellent results. It goes up red and white and slowly turns a weathered gray. The gray is from dust, dirt and bleaching, not deteriotion. It should last you 20 years or more with no maintenance at all.

I used the kind that is very irregular (actually split, not sawn) and I intentionally went through all the rails looking for ones with "character" and eye pleasing shapes. If you have a gas powered post hole digger and don't hit any big rocks, you can install about 60'-80' per hour with two people. Figure a solid weekend for two workers.

600' of fence should cost you about $1600 for materials. Do NOT let the lumber yard select your rails and posts. Go do that yourself.

 

[inveresk]

Lewis, the snake fencing I'm using doesn't use posts (see image attached). It's made from split cedar, not sawn, with a rail cost of 75c per linear foot so assuming 4 rails high, will work out around $3 per linear foot. 600 feet of fencing should cost me around $1800 CAD for the materials and I'll do the work myself. I have a backhoe but no post hole digger, one of the reasons for using this particular fencing system, the other being that posts rot pretty quick here.

I know that mowing around these fences isn't easy because I can't easily get the rfm into the triangles formed by the zigzags but I intended to solve this problem by sowing a wildflower meadow in a band projecting a couple feet into the pasture on either side of the fence. That way I should only need to mow the wildflower meadow part a couple times a year for which I'm happy to use a weedwhacker. I know I'll have to select plants that are livestock safe though.

I'm not sure of the minimum angle I can use to keep the fence stable and also the best way to spike the rails together to ensure the elbows remain stiff over their height. I was thinking rebar but can see problems in trying to use 1 long bar so intended to use maybe four shorter bars over the height making sure there was good overlap of the bars. I think it's going to be trial and error, though, to see how well this works.

The rails are split locally from forest clean up, old growth cedar. I can inspect the rails before they're delivered.

 

[gordon21]

I saw the mention of "snake" fence, but had no clue what it meant. I see these all the time but never knew they had a name. They obviously were designed by people to make fences simple, easy to build and repair. There were not a lot of gas powered augers back in Daniel Boone's day. Most of the local ones use an angle of about 125-145 degrees. As you get closer to 160 degrees, the stability goes way down. 90-120 degrees would work fine, but I feel it would be a waste of wood.

I would think that galvanized spikes would be far cheaper and better than rebar. It's only a wood fence, not a skyscraper. Take a cordless drill, drill some 1/4" pilot holes and slam that 5/16" spike down through two rails and possibly the tip into the third layer below. I would use no more than 12" overhang. I am in the process of building a log cabin myself and that is what is used on the stockade corners.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Lewis, the snake fencing I'm using doesn't use posts (see image attached). It's made from split cedar, not sawn, with a rail cost of 75c per linear foot so assuming 4 rails high, will work out around $3 per linear foot. 600 feet of fencing should cost me around $1800 CAD for the materials and I'll do the work myself. I have a backhoe but no post hole digger, one of the reasons for using this particular fencing system, the other being that posts rot pretty quick here.

I know that mowing around these fences isn't easy because I can't easily get the rfm into the triangles formed by the zigzags but I intended to solve this problem by sowing a wildflower meadow in a band projecting a couple feet into the pasture on either side of the fence. That way I should only need to mow the wildflower meadow part a couple times a year for which I'm happy to use a weedwhacker. I know I'll have to select plants that are livestock safe though.

I'm not sure of the minimum angle I can use to keep the fence stable and also the best way to spike the rails together to ensure the elbows remain stiff over their height. I was thinking rebar but can see problems in trying to use 1 long bar so intended to use maybe four shorter bars over the height making sure there was good overlap of the bars. I think it's going to be trial and error, though, to see how well this works.

The rails are split locally from forest clean up, old growth cedar. I can inspect the rails before they're delivered.

I love the idea. It's a beautiful fence and since you're doing it yourself you can do some things that would be cost prohibitive if others did it for you.

Here's how I would do it if it was mine.

First I'd find granite slabs for pedestals to keep the cedar off the ground, six inches to a foot would work fine.

I'd drill the slabs for a one inch steel rod and use an expoxy to anchor the one inch steel rods.

I'd then place my rails over the steel rod. A one and a quarter inch forstner bit in a half inch drill would allow one to quickly and efficiently install the rails.

Another alternative would be to get some south eastern red cedar (aromatic) or cypress for your bottom beams. They don't rot as easily and are relatively resistant to insects.

Your project looks like fun.

 

[Knotbored]

I made about 250' of that fence along my driveway and a few planting areas, mostly just two rails high, corners supported on rocks, no rebar or bolts at corners.
I split the rails myself from old cedar logs left on-site from logging many years before I bought the property.
My rail lengths are about 8'. I found the longer the log the "squirlier" the rail got. 10' was difficult to make without one end getting too small.

If you split your own have several wedges handy. I had two legitimate steel wedges, a couple heads from broken splitting mals and a half dozen maple wedges I cut from my cordwood pile. There is a real feeling of acomplishment as the rails crackle and split away. Note you get to rail size by splitting each section in half-if you attempt to split a small rail from a large section it will come out a long wedge-too small on the far end.
Good luck-you will love the look of your finished fence.

 

[inveresk]

Knotbored, if you didn't use rebar or bolts how did you fix the rails?

 

[MarkV]

Knotbored, if you didn't use rebar or bolts how did you fix the rails?

I have a lot of snake fencing at my place, although I didn’t know it was called snake fencing until you educated me. Here in Georgia we don’t have much old growth cedar and use black locus for its durability. I’m not sure what angle is standard but mine are much less than 90 degrees. Ours is five rails high with only the top rail nailed to the top rail of the adjoining section. It has been stable for years that way and I’ll bet the pioneers that started using this system just stacked them. We are not trying to keep any live stock in and don’t have any snow loads so in those cases nailing or pining may be worth the effort. With as irregular as a split rail is I would think that trying to drill a consistent hole to run rebar top to bottom would be a real challenge. On a five rail fence that is ten rails to go through at each bend. If it were me I would drill at an angle and toe nail one course to the next. Even better would be a cordless framing nailer and you could skip the drilling.

MarkV

 

[Knotbored]

Knotbored, if you didn't use rebar or bolts how did you fix the rails?

The rails aren't "fixed" at all. That is the idea of the "snake" type fence. Each corner is offset about 18" back and forth and there is no tendancy for it to collapse.
I have bumped a rail off a couple times backing my tractor without watching what I was doing, just reset it easily.

Note mine is just two rails, too short to contain livestock, just for looks.
I agree boring holes through a tall stack of rails would be hard and unnecessary. Gravity does a good job, maybe tying the top rails would be useful. Note a forsner bit gets stuck in a long hole drilled downward-it jambs in the chips that don't clear. If you do drill it tip it on its side and shake out the chips, or blow them out with compressed air.