Can you help shed some light ?

[Soundguy]

This is a simple dc circuit.. Think of it as a voltage divider with multiple test points. You are measuring potential at a point in reference to ground. Test this logic by changing your reference point. Instead of referencing ground, reference before the last light. Also, keep in mind that current (electron current ) flows from negative to positive. These are identical loads in series... each is 'seeing' the exact same current flow, which will then produce the same voltage drop across that component. Keep in mind that voltage drop is an effect of current flow. With no current flow, there is no voltage drop.

Soundguy

"Each light will actually "see" 3 volts less than the previous, although each light will only be using or dropping 3 volts. If you measure the voltage across each bulb, you will read 3 volts, but if you read from the positive side of each light to ground, you will read 12 volts at the first light, 9 volts at the second, etc. All this assuming "

 

[EdKing]

<font color=blue>This is a simple dc circuit.. Think of it as a voltage divider with multiple test points. You are measuring potential at a point in reference to ground. Test this logic by changing your reference point. Instead of referencing ground, reference before the last light.</font color=blue>

I thought that is pretty much what I said.

<font color=blue>With no current flow, there is no voltage drop.</font color=blue>

You would then see 12 volts at each lamp, when referenced to ground, but no voltage if you measured across each light.

<font color=blue>Also, keep in mind that current (electron current ) flows from negative to positive.</font color=blue>

I don't see what this has to do with the discussion at hand, other than my original sugestion for better grounding, thus lowering the resistance, thus raising the current, thus raising the power, thus making the lights brighter.

P.S. Check my profile

 

[Inspector507]

What I wanna know is............did Mark ever get those lights working? /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

 

[chim]

Soundguy, I began as an electrichicken (sic) in construction. Had some courses, but was never a full-time college student. Taught some apprenticeship and adult ed classes. When our firm started picking up other trades back in the '70's, it was fun to get involved in other work. Some of us manage multiple trade contract work, and for the last several years I've been working more with Mechanical (mostly HVAC and piping) projects and oddball stuff than Electrical................chim

 

[ByuBill]

<font color=blue>did Mark ever get those lights working?</font color=blue>

He's probably more confused now than ever. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif Maybe someone will come through and explain it where the average person can understand what they are talking about. Like using a waterline with four faucets as an example. You know, water flow, current flow. Nope, not gonna be me. I leave my work, at work. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[Soundguy]

My only concern was that the way it was stated.. I.E. each light 'seeing' less voltage that the former, one might be led to believe that the first light needed to be a 12v light, the next a 9v light, the next a 6v light , and the final one in series a 3v light.. when in reality they are all 3v lights ( assuming 4 lights in a 12v series circuit ).
I made the discussion point, because I have seen the confusion before, in other subs, with non electrically trained people misinterpreting what someone was saying. And FWIW I had already checked your bio, otherwise I wouldn't have been discussing it with you at this level... had to have a common fram of reference for a good exchange.

Soundguy

 

[EdKing]

Okay, I see what you are saying. Sometimes I have trouble putting things in "Laymans Terms" when I am discussing electrical/electronics issues.

I to wonder if the original problem was ever resolved.

 

[Soundguy]

It's funny. I too lost track of the problem, and how it turned out.

I think his problem was probably insuficient positive supply lead. He said he had hte lights grounded to the frame.. but I wonder if he made sure the contact points were free of debri and paint. He may want to run a heavy positive cable along the frame to the rear ( well insulated and armoured.... fuse or breaker protected as well ), and establish a break out box or wiring block as a supply point for any of the 12v apps he may be using, now or later. Then he can use smaller wire run to the dash for the controll, and use a relay on the rear near the supply 'tee' off. A seperate small wire could also be run from the 'on' position of the ignition switch, to another relay, that way he could have ignition 'on/off' based power at the rear of the tractor as well. I did this, and it is very convienient.

Soundguy

P.S.
sorry for any confusion I may have caused, as it was a case of we were both saying the same thing differently. And i too have trouble 'translating' the technobable down to more easilly chewed pieces for the non-technically inclined.

"Okay, I see what you are saying. Sometimes I have trouble putting things in "Laymans Terms" when I am discussing electrical/electronics issues.

I to wonder if the original problem was ever resolved."

 

[Inspector507]

Soundguy,
With just 4 small amber marker lights, I doubt if too big of a wire needs to be used. #14 max in my opinion would be needed.

 

[Mark_in_NH]

Hi Everybody,
A Canopy lights update. I have read with interest all the post here, but have yet been unable to apply any of the theorys. Spring work load ( house openings, homeowners arriving etc.) has me running like a lunatic and I just haven't taken the time to check or work on the lights.
I was able to get 5 quality hours of seat time on the tractor the otherday filling pot holes, in the development, with Blue Stone dust.
BOY IS THAT A FUN JOB WITH A TRACTOR !! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif Scoop up a load and dump it in my pick up, send it out to get started, scoop up another bucket and follow along with the tractor driving up and down dirt roads, and just fill pot holes.

Riding around on my tractor, enjoying the job at hand and getting paid for it.
LIFE IS GOOD !!!! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[Mark_in_NH]

Hi Everybody,
I finally have an update in the light department. The canopy hazard lights work properly and as desired. A friend of mine who works for a local company that sets up Emergancy, Municipal and Private vehicles, gave me a Federal electronic flasher unit that he salvaged out of a cruiser retrofit. It and the lights work like a champ. I had 2 problems from the start, both of which were suggested to me in this thread.
1st. was the type of flasher I was trying to use, a Wagner type.

2nd. was the size of my test wire I was using to provide temporary power.
I took a few minutes to day and tested everything, using the posative side of my jumper cables ( I figured they should be of aequate size ) to provide temporary power.
Everything worked as intended. Now I just need to figure out the path to run my hot wire (need to buy some) to the rear of the tractor and up to the canopy, mount my switch, make all my final connections.
Thank you all for you advice, suggestion and input.

 

[Soundguy]

I suggest running that positive lead inside wire loom cable, or 'spagetti' as some call it. That will give it a bit of protection. Cable ties here and there will keep it from hanging and snagging. If not already, make sure there is a fuse inline with it, close to the distribution source. ( battery, tap, or panel/barrier strip you are taking your power from ).

Soundguy

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Hello - new to the forums, and having a good time reading through them. I wanted to mention that whenever possible it's always a good idea to use a relay to power any accessories or lights. I think Soundguy mentioned this and it's important. I've done a lot of automotive wiring and I can't tell you how many switches I've seen fried due to a high amperage being routed through them.

The nice thing about relays is that they route power directly to the light/accessory from the battery or ignition controlled source without trying to route that same amperage through the switch contacts. Another bonus is that since the switch (resistance) is eliminated from the supply voltage side of the circuit, you'll get more voltage to the light/accessory which is usually a good thing. I have seen many cases of installing relays into headlight circuits of older cars and the complaint of dim headlights disappears.

A fuse or circuit breaker is placed between the 12v source and the relay to protect the load circuit. All the switch does is supply voltage to close (or open) the relay internal coil/contacts, which usually only need millivolts to energize.

The 12v feed to the switch can be on a smaller gauge wire since there is no real amperage demand through the switch when it's controlling a relay. The switch circuit can also be protected with a fuse installed between switch and 12v source.

BTW - I've always gotten my electrical stuff thorugh www.delcity.net and have been very pleased with them (no relation or connection with them - just think they do a good job). My tractor worklight arrived today - sealed beam in rubber shock mounting - item 8595 for $9.29 /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif.

Well that's long winded enough - I only wanted to stress that the electrical stuff will live a lot longer with a little more effort in up front installation.