Calling All Electricians for Hot Tub Wiring HELP

[kcflhrc]

So I thought I had this all figured out but some Google Searches have me questioning what I had planned. Hot Tub will be here around the end of the month. It requires 240v 50 amp. I have done this in the past but I think the codes may have changed. I definitely want it to be safe and done right. Here's a run down of what I was going to do.

1. Install 50 amp breaker in panel
2. Run 6-3 Black Stranded CU SIMpull NM-B W/G Wire wire from panel to outside GFCI 50 amp breaker in Seal Tight Flex Non Metallic once it leaves the house.
3. Run Seal Tight Flex and 6-3 Black Stranded CU SIMpull NM-B W/G Wire from GFCI Breaker to Hot Tub.

Here lies my issue. I have read that 6-3 Black Stranded CU SIMpull NM-B W/G Wire is not supposed to be ran outside at all. But why not if it is in conduit? What I have read is that you have to run individual strands of #6 THHN from the GFCI to the Hot Tub. Any help is appreciated.

 

[CobyRupert]

My reading of the electrical code (NFPA 70- Article 334.12(B) is that the limiting factor for NM "...shall not be used in the following locations: (4) In wet or damp locations."

Do you have a damp location (protected from weather and not subject to saturation from water, but subject to moderate degrees of moisture (example under a canopy). If so, I believe (IMHO) that the inside of the conduit is not a damp location; thus NM is allowed.

However if you have a wet location (exposed to weather), than as per the Fine Print Notes definition of a Wet Location (Article 100) "..the inside of a raceway in a wet location ...(is) considered a wet location. Therefore, any conductors...must be suitable for wet locations."

Now practically...

 

[Industrial Toys]

I learned here that you cannot put cable in conduit, only individual conductors. I made that mistake quite often here on my own projects. My hot tub is run with tech cable, and I have trouble with the GFI tripping. So, no GFI. Could bring new meaning to "Hot"! Would that be a hot, hot tub?

 

[CobyRupert]

I learned here that you cannot put cable in conduit, only individual conductors. I made that mistake quite often here on my own projects. My hot tub is run with tech cable, and I have trouble with the GFI tripping. So, no GFI. Could bring new meaning to "Hot"! Would that be a hot, hot tub?

Don't think that's true under the Canadian code, and definitely not true under US code.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Really? I thought it had been made quite clear to me that you can't put a multi conductor cable in a conduit as it is not designed for that additional insulation and hence heat build up. I'm talking current carrying building cable, your NMD and NMW type cable, not signal lines.

 

[RNeumann]

Code requires individual conductors be ran in conduit. I have never seen a provision that allows anything else in conduit. THHN is recommended as it provides the highest amperage for a given wire size. THHN is the wire insulation.

I am betting you will actually need 4 conductors. Maybe you know this....maybe not. So just a reminder.

In the spirit of doing it right you will need to size your conduit. Several places online have them. Just google Conduit Calculator

Good luck!

 

[Soundguy]

We just did a big remodel of a venue I work in, all the electrical was individual conductors run in metal conduits.

 

[LittleBill21]

National Electrical Code 2011
ARTICLE 334 Nonmetallic-Sheathed Cable: Types NM, NMC, and NMS
II. Installation

334.15 Exposed Work. In exposed work, except as provided in 300.11(A), cable shall be installed as specified in 334.15(A) through (C).

(B) Protection from Physical Damage. Cable shall be protected from physical damage where necessary by rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, electrical metallic tubing, Schedule 80 PVC conduit, Type RTRC marked with the suffix -XW, or other approved means. Where passing through a floor, the cable shall be enclosed in rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, electrical metallic tubing, Schedule 80 PVC conduit, Type RTRC marked with the suffix -XW, or other approved means extending at least 150 mm (6 in.) above the floor. [ROP 7-94] Type NMC cable installed in shallow chases or grooves in masonry, concrete, or adobe shall be protected in accordance with the requirements in 300.4(F) and covered with plaster, adobe, or similar finish.


2017 NEC

334.15 Exposed Work. In exposed work, except as provided
in 300.11(A), cable shall be installed as specified in 334.15(A)
through (C).

(B) Protection from Physical Damage. Cable shall be protected
from physical damage where necessary by rigid metal
conduit, intermediate metal conduit, electrical metallic tubing,
Schedule 80 PVC conduit, Type RTRC marked with the suffix -
XW, or other approved means. Where passing through a floor,
the cable shall be enclosed in rigid metal conduit, intermediate
metal conduit, electrical metallic tubing, Schedule 80 PVC
conduit, Type RTRC marked with the suffix -XW, or other
approved means extending at least 150 mm (6 in.) above the
floor.

 

[CobyRupert]

Yes, put individual conductors in conduit.
But unless otherwise prohibited, you can put multi-conductor cables in raceway. But if you're spending money for conduit, why are you spending additional money for a cable with a protective jacket instead of single conductors?
They also take up more space, so conduits have to be bigger.
Example
Article 330 Metal clad cables: Uses permitted: (7): In any raceway.
Article 334: NM cable: Uses permitted: Allowed in raceways for certain types of construction
Article 336: Tray cable: Uses permitted: (3) In raceways.
There's also parts of code that talk about how when sizing conduits, you treat them as 1 "wire".
etc...

 

[teejk]

Nothing lights up a board better than an electrical question!