Calcium (water heater) questions...

[Richard]

I've asked before about this and now, I have finally tried it.

My 1-year old water heater stopped. I presumed (from past expeience) that the calcium has built up at the bottom, buried my lower element and it shorted. Turns out that was NOT the case, but the calcium pile was VERYYYYYYYYYY close to the element.

I bought roughly 1 gallon of vinegar at Home Depot. They didn't have the higher percentage concentration.....the salesman (who in hindsight knew nothing) said they were the same.... they weren't but I digress.

Today I go get some 30% vinegar concetration. (4-gallons). I've added 2-gallons to the lowered water height. Interestingly, later on, I put my borescope down there via the upper element and you can see the bubbling as the calcium dissolves. My understanding is it turns into CO2 and water (but never was much of a chemist!)

The whole bottom is covered and is just below the lower element. I'm currently draining tank as I added the vinegar to maybe 1/2 tank of water. I'm letting it drain so I can put the 2-gallons in there with much less water, hoping it will be a higher ratio of vinegar to calcium.

What I'm wondering is, how much calcium might 2-gallons of 30% vinegar dissolve before it's worn out?

I might put it in prior to going to bed to force me to leave it alone for several hours and stop trying to peek!!! I've never done calcium removal this way. Last time I literally took tank off system, put on dolly and took outside, pulled anode rod out and flipped tank over so I could use hose to get much of it out the anode hole. I wasn't very able to get it out the lower element hole since it's above the bottom.

Curious if anyone has any tips on how to improve this process?? I might add, both original elements are coated with calcium. I bought two new ones. I'll put the new ones in and then soak these in vinegar to get all the crusted calcium off and then use these as a spare in event I blow an element at midnight on a weekend or holiday and need a quick spare.

 

[ponytug]

30% acetic acid (vinegar) will work on any calcium carbonate to dissolve it that you have in your tank. It may not get all of the crud, but it is one of the most common chemicals in hard water. Hopefully, it will get the crud out out. However, if your tank has any exposed steel, or copper or brass on the inside, it will also attack (corrode / rust) the metal. When the acid treatment is done, I would rinse the tank out well, and then I would add some washing soda and fill the tank to neutralize any remaining acid in the nooks and crannies. I would use the old electrodes when you have acid in the tank, or better yet bungs. I have seen acid etch into electrodes very quickly along stress cracks in the elements.

To me, the inner "glass" lining on most hot water tanks is pretty fragile, as it is both thin and often not well fused together, or to the tank, so I think being very cautious about banging the tank, or trying to agitate the solids is prudent.

I prefer to go the route of softening the water, but water softeners take some work and they aren't cheap, but might be cheaper in the long run.

All the best,

Peter

P.S. Chemistry aside: the chemistry is that acetic acid plus calcium carbonate react to form carbon dioxide, a gas, and calcium acetate, which is water soluble. So, that gets a lot of the crust out of the way. Others can just be rinsed off once the calcium carbonate is gone. Acetic acid also works some chemistry on rust, and steel. Hard water deposits can be a mix of many different chemicals (salts and oxides), not all of which are easily redissolved with acid. There also are other organic acids used in commercial rust and lime removers like "Lime-Away". The main thing is not to leave any of them on a metal surface for any longer than you have to, and to rinse the acids off, and follow the rinse with something alkaline (basic) as a rinse to keep any exposed steel from rapidly rusting.

 

[oosik]

I hook a hose to my electric water heater. Hose goes out the door and dumps on the ground - beyond the deck. I do this every spring.

I get a "blast" of gunk. Let it run another five minuets. Good for another year. My well is a spring. So - seasonally - I do get slight amounts of silt. It all settles out in either the pressure tank or the hot water tank.

I clean both the pressure tank and hot water tank every spring. My hot water heater is now 14 years old and still going strong.

Richard - if your brand new water heater is plugged after only a year. It might be worth your while to look into a system that reduces the water hardness ( calcium ).

 

[Wolverinefarm22]

I don’t know about the vinegar and calcium buildup but wouldn’t using a water softener in line before the tank eliminate this issue long term

 

[ponytug]

I don’t know about the vinegar and calcium buildup but wouldn’t using a water softener in line before the tank eliminate this issue long term

Yup.

That's why I use a water softener; it swaps all of the calcium and magnesium for sodium or potassium, giving soft water. A water softener also filters out almost all the sediment, at least here. Probably some clay silt would get through, but we don't have that. You can get resins that also absorb some other salts like sulfate, which helps keep odor down.

There are various other gizmos that are said to work to not have hard water deposits, but I have my doubts, as none of them (that I am aware of) are in use for commercial and industrial water treatment, which I think speaks for itself on their collective lack of efficacy.

All the best,

Peter

 

[5030]

No water softener here, never has been, never will be. I run a 5 micron pass Industrial Cumo filter with a 5 micron pass replaceable filter before the water goes into the house system and I drain my HWH tank every time I change out the filters, which in my case, is monthly. Never had an issue with the HWH in the last 10 years at least.

 

[Richard]

Here's a couple pictures. Someone needs to create a tool that screws to the heating elements so you are not using finger tips in a recessed hole to try to align the element with the weight on the inside of the tank....

I digress.

Knowing I had calcium.... when I plumbed the bathroom in the basement (full bath with a killer shower.... 3/4" hot + 3/4" cold supply lines feeding 3/4" thorughput valves with all restrictors removed....sales gal when I bought this asked if I was building a car wash)

Anyway, I plumbed a line into garage for a softener. Wife however, had/has other plans for this location and along the wall is a refrigerator and a large cabinet to store stuff. Totally in the way of the softener location. (sighs)

For those who've never peeked inside the tank, here's what I found and the second picture shows some of the bubbles forming after the vinegar went inside. The guy at the box store said I was buying the "same thing" other than brand and they were OUT of the higher percentage vinegar so I took him at his word. It was diluted vinegar, not concentrated so I went back to town.

Day was finishing so I still have some calcium in there. I'm going to speculate 1/3'rd of it might have dissolved but have no way to really base that comment. It just seemed the pile was smaller. I was going to drain tank again today and put 2-gallons of the 30% stuff in there but had to finish putting backhoe back together so nothing done on that yet.

I said 1-year..... not that it really matters but I think it's been two years. Either way, my old 80 gallon tank would impact the lower element, this one is/was still way down below the element.

 

[ponytug]

@Richard It is never easy, is it?

Good luck!

Peter

 

[CliffordK]

I don’t know about the vinegar and calcium buildup but wouldn’t using a water softener in line before the tank eliminate this issue long term

I don't know if it was an adjustment problem, but my grandmother had a Sodium Chloride water softener, and everything rusted. The inside of the dishwasher, washing machine, etc.

I could faintly taste the salt in the water... all the while my grandfather was supposed to be on salt restrictions.

Trade one problem for another.

 

[ponytug]

I don't know if it was an adjustment problem, but my grandmother had a Sodium Chloride water softener, and everything rusted. The inside of the dishwasher, washing machine, etc.

I could faintly taste the salt in the water... all the while my grandfather was supposed to be on salt restrictions.

Trade one problem for another.

I would say that sounds like that was a malfunctioning control valve. We had one like that. When I took the valve apart, the control piston rod was snapped in half, which explained the salt and terrible water softening. It also explained why the water heater died within two years, and why the softener was using so much salt.

We put in a better model of softener and haven't had a problem in fifteen or so years.

All the best,

Peter