Bumper Vs. Gooseneck Payloads

[Iplayfarmer]

Here's a general question for debate. Is it true that a tow vehicle can haul more with a bumper pull trailer than it can with a gooseneck?

Let's use my setup as a reference. I have a Silverado half ton with about a 1000 pound payload capacity after figuring passengers, etc. A typical bumper pull setup uses about 10% tongue weight. A typical gooseneck setup uses 25% tongue weight. My trailer payload capacities therefore are 10,000 pounds for a bumper pull or 4,000 pounds for a gooseneck.

I love my 5th wheel camper and my gooseneck horse trailer. I'm planning a full re-build on my flat bed trailer, and I was tempted to convert it to a gooseneck until I started looking at the above numbers.

I seems odd to me that I can haul less with a gooseneck trailer. What am I missing?

 

[slowzuki]

It depends. A GN is heavier so you have that loss in payload off the start. A half ton doesn't usually have much payload capacity left if fully loaded.

To start with, a 1/2 with only 1000 lb payload will not be rated to tow 10,000 lb by bumper pull, it will be closer to 5000 or 6000 lb.

Next, you don't have to use 25% on a GN, but you can. This will usually let a heavy 1/2 ton like a Ford with the 7700 kg GVWR package tow about 13,000 lb on a GN.

Capacity isn't the only reason to be looking at a GN, they pull really nicely, and don't need sway control etc to try to make them tow well.

 

[SLHawkins]

Here's a general question for debate. Is it true that a tow vehicle can haul more with a bumper pull trailer than it can with a gooseneck?

Let's use my setup as a reference. I have a Silverado half ton with about a 1000 pound payload capacity after figuring passengers, etc. A typical bumper pull setup uses about 10% tongue weight. A typical gooseneck setup uses 25% tongue weight. My trailer payload capacities therefore are 10,000 pounds for a bumper pull or 4,000 pounds for a gooseneck.

I love my 5th wheel camper and my gooseneck horse trailer. I'm planning a full re-build on my flat bed trailer, and I was tempted to convert it to a gooseneck until I started looking at the above numbers.

I seems odd to me that I can haul less with a gooseneck trailer. What am I missing?

No, it is not true. You can haul more with a gooseneck trailer than you can with a bumper pool. You are incorrectly comparing the percentages. The bumper pull does not 'use' 10% of the tongue weight. Rather, when your weight is correctly distributed, about 10% of the weight (trailer plus load) should rest of the tongue. For the gooseneck, about 23% of the weight shouuld be on the bed of the truck. More than that, you will potentially raise the front end of the ground. Less than that, you will raise the rear end. Keep in mind, you must stay within the GCVWR of the vehicle.

In rebuilding your truck, you need to determine the GCVWR (capacity of truck and trailer). Your 1000lbs sounds like just the GVWR (truck only). This link may help: Horse Trailer Weight - Learn the Facts of Safely Towing

 

[slowzuki]

What he's saying is if he keeps a 25% weight distribution on the truck, and that is 1000 lbs max to keep from going over his axle or tire rating, his trailer would only be 4000 lbs which is correct math, but you don't need 1000 lb pin weight on a small trailer like that.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

A little more data...

I took a minute here at work and weighed the truck and read the sticker on the door. These weights are with a full tank of fuel, no passengers, and an empty bed.

Front Axle:
Weight = 2180, Rating = 3925

Rear Axle:
Weight = 2280, Rating = 3750

Whole Truck:
Weight = 5460, Rating = 6400


I also did some looking in the manual and found some interesting information. I never found GCWVR, but I found a chart that lists a max trailer wt. for my set-up (4WD - 1500) at 7,500 lbs. I don't know my axle ratio, but 7,500 lbs. is for the lower capacity axle.

The intersting part is this... "Weight distributing hitch tongue weight 10% to 15% of hitch pulling weight, 1,000 lb. maximum. Fifth-wheel hitch tongue weight 15% to 25% of hitch pulling weight 1,500 lb. maximum."

The two interesting things to me are that the book lists a different tongue weight for a fifth wheel hitch, and that it lists a tongue weight ratio as low as 15% for a fifth wheel.

 

[fowllife]

Your owners manual should spell it all out for you in terms of trailer towing capacity. Generally speaking though your GCVW will remain the same regarless of what you are towing. The manual will break it out into bumper pull, bumper pull with weight distrabution hitch, and 5th wheel. Also keep in mind though that your factory hitch is probably not rated for a 10k trailer.

Tongue weights are maximum allowable, not minimum. Look at your manual with your truck spec's and do the math. Your GCVW is the same no matter how you pull it, you just need to balance your load right to make the numbers work.

 

[grsthegreat]

my 1 ton ford is rated at 5,000# @ bumper (increase up to 10,000 with weight distributing hitch), or 18,000# on gooseneck.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

No, it is not true. You can haul more with a gooseneck trailer than you can with a bumper pool. You are incorrectly comparing the percentages. The bumper pull does not 'use' 10% of the tongue weight. Rather, when your weight is correctly distributed, about 10% of the weight (trailer plus load) should rest of the tongue. For the gooseneck, about 23% of the weight shouuld be on the bed of the truck. More than that, you will potentially raise the front end of the ground. Less than that, you will raise the rear end. Keep in mind, you must stay within the GCVWR of the vehicle.

In rebuilding your truck, you need to determine the GCVWR (capacity of truck and trailer). Your 1000lbs sounds like just the GVWR (truck only). This link may help: Horse Trailer Weight - Learn the Facts of Safely Towing

Keep in mind I'm re-building the trailer, not the truck. I don't disagree that a gooseneck trailer will haul more than a bumper pull in general, but it seems that a low capacity vehicle (like a half ton truck) cannot handle as large of a gooseneck trailer as it can of a bumper pull... based on your own tongue weight estimates. I.e. if both loads are distributed properly, the gooseneck trailer will put more weight on the tow vehicle than the bumper pull will (23% vs. 10%). You'll max out the capacity of a tow vehicle sooner with a gooseneck than you will the same tow vehicle with a bumper pull trailer.

The axles I have to re-build the trailer with are 3500 pound axles, so keeping within the capacity of the tow vehicle is not a problem. The confusion I had was that based on a higher percentage of tongue weight needed for a gooseneck I was coming up with a trailer weight way below the capacity even of the axles.

...you don't need 1000 lb pin weight on a small trailer like that.

I think this is the answer to the question I should have asked. The real question is "How much tongue weight to you really need for a gooseneck trailer?" If I only need 15% tongue weight it makes more sense.

Now I just have to sort out how an empty truck with only 1000 pounds of payload capacity is rated to handle 1500 pounds of fifth wheel tongue weight. Based on the scale numbers, I have the capacity in the rear axle, but I don't have the GVWR capacity.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I am not a fan of GN trailers. I had a 25+5 25,000# GVWR and hated it. Pulled it with a 1 Ton Diesel F-350. That being said there is a need for them, just not for 80% of the guys who think they need them. There should also never be a GN on a 1/2 ton period.

The main issue is the weight of the trailer. If you look at say a 10K equipment trailer with a GN then the same trailer with a Bumper Pull there is about 600 to 800# of difference in trailer wight. This comes right off what you can tow.

So in your example your truck is rated for 7,500# which is about as light of a tow rating on a 1/2 modern truck. Most now days are 9,500# to 11,300#. A 10K equipment trailer that is a BP would be about 2,500# empty. A GN would be 3,100# using numbers from one of my dealers. This 600# can make the difference between getting car on the trailer or not.

I have also found it harder to sell GN trailers. BP anyone with a Van, Suburban, Truck, Large Car can tow. GN you are stuck with a truck and loosing the ability to use your bed while towing.


Just leave it alone.

Chris

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I am not a fan of GN trailers. I had a 25+5 25,000# GVWR and hated it. Pulled it with a 1 Ton Diesel Dually. That being said there is a need for them, just not for 80% of the guys who think they need them. There should also never be a GN on a 1/2 ton period.

The main issue is the weight of the trailer. If you look at say a 10K equipment trailer with a GN then the same trailer with a Bumper Pull there is about 600 to 800# of difference in trailer wight. This comes right off what you can tow.

So in your example your truck is rated for 7,500# which is about as light of a tow rating on a 1/2 modern truck. Most now days are 9,500# to 11,300#. A 10K equipment trailer that is a BP would be about 2,500# empty. A GN would be 3,100# using numbers from one of my dealers. This 600# can make the difference between getting car on the trailer or not.

I have also found it harder to sell GN trailers. BP anyone with a Van, Suburban, Truck, Large Car can tow. GN you are stuck with a truck and loosing the ability to use your bed while towing.

Edit: To your point, I'll likely never be able to sell this small of a gooseneck trailer.

Edit: To your point, I'll likely never be able to sell the trailer if I convert it to a gooseneck as few people out there will want that small of a flat bed trailer.

Just leave it alone.

Chris

Chris, I totally respect your opinion. I am the first to admit that I don't need a gooseneck. However, I have a 17' fifth wheel camper and a single axle gooseneck horse trailer, and I love them both. This is purely a "wants" discussion and not a needs discussion. I love how easy it is to hitch a gooseneck. I love that I can jack-knife my horse trailer when needed to get out of the arena at 4-H. I love how a gooseneck or fifth wheel handles when pulling. I just really like that type of trailer.

I'm going to re-build the tongue on my trailer regardless as it's underbuilt and bent now anyway. It's just a matter of whether to build an A-frame tongue that I can use an equalizer with or keep going and make a gooseneck. My tractor weighs about 3,500 lbs. full of fuel and soaking wet (Massey 1215). Other than that, the heaviest load I'll haul is hay. If I can build a 3,000 lb. Gooseneck that looks as silly as my short camper and my short horse trailer and can haul 4,000 lbs. I'm golden.

I just want to make sure that a 3,000 lb. trailer hooked to my truck is actually going to haul 4,000 pounds and not overload my truck.