Brakes

[Egon]

Need opinions:

1996 2500 diesel Dodge with 100K miles on truck and on front rotors. Three new sets of pads on front rotors. Truck is usually at or near 16,000 pounds with camper and trailer.

At this milage I figure the front rotors may soon have to be replaced.

I am considering switching the front brake system to that of 3500 series truck. As I understand the job is not difficult. The work would be done by qualified individuals.

Would this be a worthwhile project??

Egon

 

[Junkman]

Considering the past history of brake pad usage that you report, I wouldn't make the change. It might be an easy job to do, but is it going to make that much difference and is the end result going to warrant the cost factor? I can see where you would need to replace the brake lines, calipers, pads, rotors, hardware, and possibly the spindles. All this is going to add up quickly to big $$$$. I am making a generalization on the parts, because there may be some that are the same and can be reused. (Seem that recently one has to be very specific with detail, when making posts or it will be taken out of context! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif) Unless you experience brake fade while pulling the trailer and this is a safety issue, I wouldn't make the change. There are certain other design considerations that also might come into play, such as metering of the system, ABS, etc. Vehicles are much more complex today and design changes of this type might effect more than we realize and effect other component parts of the vehicle. An example of this, is that the front brakes handle a certain percentage of the braking force and the rest of the 100% of the braking force is done by the rear brakes. If you change the front brakes, this might increase the front braking capacity and lower the rear brakes capacity as a result. How this might effect the driving characteristics, I can not say. I would consider all the different aspects before making any change. What, on the surface looks like an easy changeover, might lead to other problems. Do you know of anyone that has already made the change and what their experiences are????

 

[johnday]

If your rotors are grooved or possibly discolored, I'd think of getting some new ones. It used to be that new ones came oversized and had to machined down to the correct thickness. If you've gone thru three sets of pads in only 100k, either you have a problem or use the brakes alot. I don't know how handy you are with mechanicals, for myself tho, I'd go to a good mechanic and have him/her take a look. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Egon]

As I understand the change requires new rotors and calipers. The brake fluid supply line may have to be resized. Some units have the larger lines. ABS is no problem as the truck only has it on the front wheels. Part of the trailer towing package as ABS on the trailer brakes is not wanted.

As some parts may/will have to be replaced soon the incremental cost difference may not be that great.

Egon

 

[Bird]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ABS is no problem as the truck only has it on the front wheels )</font>

That's another new one to me. I've known of 4 wheel antilock brakes and rear only, but never heard of antilock brakes only on the front. I'm not disputing what you say 'cause there's lots of things I'm not familiar with, but are you sure you've got that right?

 

[Junkman]

Brake pad usage wear is dependent on a lot of things other than actual mileage. Some of the OEM pads are soft and offer greater stopping power, but wear out faster. Many of the replacement pads are extremely hard, and will wear much better and require less frequent replacement, but the braking performance will suffer. Vehicle weight, terrain that is usually traversed, towing, cargo carrying, all effect the brakes longevity. I change the brake pads in my car every 25,000 miles. If I try to make it to 30,000 miles, the wear indicator light is already starting to come on. My wifes Ford Explorer goes through brake pads frequently. She does virtually no highway driving and all of her driving is done in the "drive time" of the day. Constant heavy traffic through the city. Your foot is either on the gas or the brake. Stop and go at every traffic light. The front pads are changed about twice as often as the rears. This is another characteristic of city driving. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[JDgreen227]

Just curious, how much of your truck mileage is accumulated while towing the trailer? Unless you have a stopping problem with the trailer attached, I don't see the need to upgrade the front brake system....I have done a lot of brake replacement jobs on cars and trucks and would be happy to get 100,000 miles out of a pair of OEM rotors.

Your pad life seems reasonable and did you have the rotors machined with every pad replacement? Many vehicles sold these days have such thin rotors they recommend replacing the rotors because there isn't enough material to machine them when the pads are replaced. But if the rotors are not machined, they will wear the new pads rapidly.


If you do a lot of towing, and your trailer brakes are not adjusted properly, that will result in your vehicle brakes working harder to stop both truck and trailer.

 

[jinman]

Egon, I have 253k miles on my '96 Ram 2500 and I've replaced front pads at least six times. Of course, I should have replaced the rotors, but since most of my driving is not towing anything and not stop-n-go, I've not noticed any problem with my brakes being too uneven in a panic stop (I've had 3 or 4 of these in traffic). In your case with your heavy camper, you may be experiencing far more problems than me, but I figure by 300k, I'd better plan on replacing my rotors with new ones. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif My calipers work perfectly and have no leaks. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

I do my own brake jobs, so I'm pretty familiar with the whole process of replacing pads. I can tell you that there are many different levels of pad quality. I get about 40k out of the best pads and only 20k out of the cheap ones.

At around 100k, when I was still letting someone else do my brakes, a brake shop told me I needed new rotors. I asked about the details and was told all kinds of mumbo-jumbo about specifications. They wanted around $450 for each new rotor and told me they would have to order the parts and have them the next day. I went home and consulted my service manual which specifically said there was no limit to rotor wear unless it was excessive, so I called the brake shop and told them I would not return. I put a micrometer on my rotors and also found that they had given me bogus numbers. Last month I asked for the current price of rotors at an AutoZone parts store and they said they were now $85 each. That's a bunch cheaper than the $450 they were back in 1998.

Well, that's my "sad little story" about brakes and why I have been doing my own ever since. I always take my truck out and do a test panic stop after changing pads. I make the anti-skid brakes engage on purpose and see if the truck pulls too hard one way or the other. So far, everything works just fine.

What Bird said about anti-skid brakes is true according to my repair manual. It says all Ram trucks have RWAL (rear wheel anti-lock) and the option is for 4-wheel anti-lock brakes. Is your truck the same as ones sold in the U.S.? Essentially, I don't think you would have much of a problem with the brake system anyway. I think the rear brake sensor is on the differential and not at the brake hubs.

I guess my only question about your truck and the brakes is would it be more costly to change the front brakes or just buy a 1-ton truck of the same year and move your camper to it? Is there that much difference in cost? I think the current NADA book value on our trucks is between $6k and $7k, and I'm not sure, but I wouldn't expect a 3500 to be that much more.

If you want me to look up specific info in my '96 Service Manual, just let me know. The book is about 3-1/2" thick and I need to use it for something besides a doorstop. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Egon]

JDgreen227:

Rotors have been machined once. The front brakes have been smoked once with only the camper on. Pads were replaced right after, no machining. Rotors are not grooved and present pads are 60 %. Rear brakes have been replaced onceand require regular adjustment. Self adjuster dosen't work well.Trailer brakes are in adjustment and changed as to trailer load.

Towing /hauling = 60K miles. much in hilly, narrow winding road conditions with a long string of traffic behind me.

Egon

 

[Egon]

As always Bird is right. The antilock is on the rear wheels only.

Those are exactly the wires I was looking at yesterday when I was crawlin around under the back to find out where the line to the rear brakes had rusted through.

Thank you /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Egon