Bobcat 463 vs other brands

[wroughtn_harv]

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While you were out and about with the bobcat did you happen to notice how easy it is to do a wheely?

The reason the bobcat will do a wheely without effort is because of all the counterweight on the rear. The weight on the rear is to give the tractor the ability to lift.

You do get more down pressure than you do with the typical small tractor pto auger. But you don't get much more.

I have the Lowe SK225 which with the quickattach plate and a twelve inch heavy duty auger with Pengo carbide faced fishtail weighs only about five hundred pounds.

I'd bet that if I put the auger on a set of scales there isn't much over a thousand pounds of down pressure. A thousand pounds might sound like almost a ton but it's really nothing when talking about down pressure when digging in rock. A Texoma truck can generate twenty thousand pounds plus and still sit there and spin.

There's a thread where photos and dialogue go a long ways explaining how to dig holes in rock. Don (centex) and a couple of us go through it in depth. He's in the Austin area where there's a lot more rock.

If you want another excerise to test the down pressure available to a skid steer try some frontloader excercises. Compare your ability to dig with a smooth blade compared to digging with a CUT.

 

[gsganzer]

You're right about the wheelie factor. I thought that thing was going to roll end over end driving it off the trailer.

I swear it had more down pressure then you suggest. In the softer spots, I'd practically punch the holes in the ground. I guess the real benefit of the front mounted auger is that I could put the auger down, raise up the front of the bobcat and then wiggle the machine and auger around when I needed to get through some rock. I'd always seem to wiggle enough and find the seam between some rocks with the auger point and twist it right in.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Did you have a problem with keeping the holes straight up and down? My JCB has the arc lift. So when you're going down you need to move the machine in and out. Some of the other brands have a straight vertical lift but generally they lift in an arc.

I let one of my buds borrow the machine with the auger to dig some holes. I came by the next day to find the three inch schedule eighty center pipe of the twelve inch auger had a nice bow. He'd not held it up going down in some combo and it had locked up bigger than heck. Not knowing what he was doing he bent the auger trying to pull it back out.

I had a young man at a fence wholesaler who was loading up at the same time I was point out that he could drill circles around me with his Little Beaver cable drive.

Everything sorta kinda stopped as I turned to look at him. The manager and help know me. All I said was "you're talking about twelve inch holes three feet deep, right?"

That was the end of that conversation. When you're digging post holes for affordable residential fence the tractor of any kind is a hindrance. But if one is building good fence with deep holes the tractor is invaluable.

 

[RobertN]

I drove one briefly today. It was cool. After being on a hand/foot control Bobcats before, it was a bit different with joysticks. Of note, the ride was really smooth. I did not do much but drive around a small lot. It handled and manuevered really well though; small home lots are our target for a machine like this.

 

[armchairtractor]

OK, Robert N, I joined these forums just so that I could respond to your thread.

It sounds like you rented a 463, and had so much fun with it (insofar as it accomplished the job painlessly in a manner that no other machine you had yet envisioned could do) that you are deciding on purchasing one, but wanted feedback on what other machines with similar capabilities were out there that may not be as visible in the Sacto area.

It also sounds like the key factor in considering the Bobcat 463 was that loader's ability to fit within a normal backyard gate of a width normally limited to pedestrians, or sturdy manual laborers with wheelbarrows.

OK. I'm on board with that search, and here is a list of what I have found so far. Time prevents me from including any details or exact specs on the machines below, but armed at least with the makes and model numbers, a diligent internet search should net you with all the real specs.

The selection criteria for the list below is essentially based on only two criterion: 1. that the tractor be able to turn on its on axis (skid steer or track drive) and 2. that the tractor has to be able to fit through an opening no wider than 4 feet. Under this standard, anything > 49" won't do, which nixes Bobcat's next model up, the 553. Most all of the tractors listed below actually are in the ultra narrow 30" to 39" width range, with only two models as wide as 48.3." Using the 5/4 rounding accounting standard, 48.3 was rounded down to 48, figuring that you could plane down a 4x4 gate post by 5/16" at the tire level if you were desperate.

Here is the list, in no particular order of importance other than loosely alphabetical, that I spent several hours looking into today, which is, btw, how I found your post and these forums:

ASV RC-30
Polaris ASL (nearly identical? to above but less $)

Bobcat 463
Bobcat MT50
(one character missing in the above model #, an "l" or 1?)

Case 1825XT

Gehl RL20DX
Gehl AL20DX

Kanga G-520
Kanga G-524
Kanga DL-520
Kanga KK-113

New Holland LS120
New Holland LS125

Mustang 2022 (The widest one on this list, at 48.3)
Mustang 2032 (Same as above in width)

Toro Dingo Kubota Diesel
Toro Dingo Kohler Gas 322
Toro Dingo TX 420
Toro Dingo TX 425
Toro Dingo TX 425 Wide Track (still narrower than 40")

Thomas Equipment 25G
Thomas Equipment 85


Well, that sums up the list so far. Obviously, some very good "small" skid steers didn't make it on this list, and that is simply due to the fact that they did not pass the key litmus test for this discussion, which is: The loader must fit through a pedestrian gate.

Some of the machines on this list are walk behinds. Some are stand behinds, like a Roman chariot... think Kirk Douglass. And some offer the luxury trappings (as well as entrapment) of a full cage cab with a heater to boot. The important thing was that they all present a viable alternative to the shovel and wheelbarrow for ultra confined access spaces.

The machines above had operating weight capacities in the same range, with a median of 500, a high of around 900, a low of around 220, and an average of around 600. The tipping weights had a higher amplitude of variation. The horsepower ranges had a closer profile of similarity... a median 20 horsepower, with a high of 31 (or maybe 46... I forget) and a low of 14 hp. The hydraulic flow ranged from 8 gpm to 16 gpm. Keep in mind, these specs are only from memory, often as reported by third party reviewers (which could be in error), perhaps on models that have since been updated, but presumably on product as manufactured in 2003.

I hope that you are able to look further into most or all of the models on this list as you continue to shop for competitive alternatives to the Bobcat 463. I'd be very interested to know what you come up with, and what you finally lay down the cash for, if anything at all. Perhaps you will find it best to just rent this type of machine only when access is the major obstacle to getting the job done, and otherwise utilize the more often called upon benefits (power, lift, force, stability) that a larger (or more averaged sized) skid steer loader provides.

Good luck, and keep this thread updated of your reviews. I for one, would like to learn more about these smaller type of work savers.

 

[armchairtractor]

After attempting to edit the post above unsuccessfully (time expired), I'll have to post a new message with updates:

1. The Bobcat MT50 is just that... MT50. There is no "1" in the model number... I might have been thinking of the T190, which is to large for fitting through garden gates.

2. There are several other brands and models in the chariot/walk-behind style that could be added to the list, and will be in #6 below.

3. The chariot/walk-behind style is considered to be realistically comparable to the Bobcat 463 for several reasons:

a) the 463 is in many cases a lot LESS powerful than the chariot/walk-behinds listed here, both in motor horsepower rating, as well as in hydraulic flow of the pump expressed in GPM.

b) the strength and stated purpose of the 463 is it's ultra tight quarters manuverability through limited access corridors. Not only is the 463 marketed for narrowness, it is advertised as being one of the shortest in length as well as the least tall (under 6 feet). Well, many of the walk-behinds and stand-ons have the 463 beat on all three dimensions, and coupled with better or equal lifting power, accessory hydraulic power, and horsepower, present a formidable competitive challenge to the 463... which makes them worth considering.

4. The Toro Dingo model line was possibly listed incompletely. I believe that the model series is as follows:

Toro Dingo 220
Toro Dingo 320D
Toro Dingo 322
Toro Dingo TX 420
Toro Dingo TX 425 wide track

5. In this world of ancronyms, it is hard to strictly distinguish the catagories that define the class of machine that meets the use qualifications set out in the parent post of this thread. All of the following have been found here:

CUT... Compact Utility Tractor
CUL... Compact Utility Loader
CTL... Compact Track Loader
MTL... Mini Track Loader
ML... Mini Loader
MSL... Mini (Something or other) Loader

and so on and so forth. The definitions of what machine fits into what catagory vary as vastly as the editors and writers who review these pieces for the rental industry rags.

Again, for the purpose stated here, to make it on this list, SIZE matters most. As long as the machine is not a radio remote control monster truck replica from the toy store, and as long as it almost meets or exceeds the work capacity of the Bobcat 463, it qualifys for comparative inclusion here.

6. Here is the list addendum, but unlike the first list in my post above, not every single model in this addendum below has been verifed to be less than 48" wide, as time was too short at the moment to fully investigate. Some manufacturer's website are time consuming and laborious to wade through to find the core product dimensional specs. Nonetheless, most all of these machines should qualify:


(Edited to re-include the models on the original list posted earlier, to keep the entire list intact:



ASV RC30


ASL (by Polaris, rebrand of model above)


BARNTek (No model data, geared toward homeowner use)


Bobcat 463 (Wheel)
Bobcat MT50 (Track)


Boxer TL-224 (Track)
Boxer TL-224-35
Boxer TF-224-35 (Track)
Boxer TF-224-D
Boxer TF-224-43 (Track)
Boxer WF-224-41 (Wheel)

(Boxer Note: There may be some redundancy in the above models listed, as they came from 3 different sources, none of which were Mertz, Inc., the corporate manufacturer of the Boxer products.)


CASE 1825XT


CATERPILLAR (No models known to fit size criterion)


CF Struck (See "MagnaTrac" below)


Cheetah SS16 (Wheel)
Cheetah SS20-D (Wheel)


Dingo (See "Toro" below)


Ditch Witch SK500 (Wheel)


Finn 244 D Eagle
Finn 254 Eagle


Gehl RL 20 DX
Gehl AL 20 DX


Kanga DL-520 (Wheel)
Kanga KK-113 KID (Wheel)
Kanga G-520 (Wheel)
Kanga G-524 (Wheel)

(Kanga Note: Kanga is an Austrailian brand/company. Those guys down there are really into this mini-loader phenomenon. In fact, the Toro "Dingo" line was reportedly also developed down under, and a refugee employee from that team reportedly branched out and started Kanga. Or, it could have been the other way around. Rumors, ya know.)


MagnaTrac MD200 (Track)
MagnaTrac MD750 (Track)

(MagnaTrac Note: New to this list, the MagnaTrac is actually a mini caterpillar D1 dozer style tractor which has loader attachment that makes it work like a tracked 463. The manufacturer of the tractor as well as the attachment is CF Struck. They make larger, heavier MagnaTrac models, but only the two models listed above fit the small size criterion.)


Mertz, Inc. (See "Boxer" above)


Mustang 2022
Mustang 2032


New Holland LS120
New Holland LS125


Power House Prodigy (Wheel)
Power House Prowler (Track)


Ramrod 800 TD
Ramrod 800 TG
Ramrod 950 TD
Ramrod 950 TG
Ramrod 1150 TD (Track)
Ramrod 1150 TG (Track)

(Ramrod Note: The six models immediately above represent Ramrod's latest model introductions. Yet Ramrod has many other models in this catagory, as listed further

Ramrod TaskMaster 550 T-G (No "D" version on the 550)
Ramrod TaskMaster 750 T-D
Ramrod TaskMaster 750 T-G
Ramrod TaskMaster 900 T-D
Ramrod TaskMaster 900 T-G
Ramrod TaskMaster 910 T-D (Track)
Ramrod TaskMaster 910 T-G (Track)
Ramrod QuadMaster 944 T-D (4x4)
Ramrod QuadMaster 944 T-G (4x4)

(Ramrod Second Note: All models are wheeled (skidsteer) unless otherwise noted to be tracked)


Thomas Equipment 25G (Wheel)
Thomas Equipment 25GT (Track)
Thomas Equipment 85 (?)


Toro Dingo 220 (The 220 is really undersized for this list)

Toro Dingo 320 Kubota Diesel (Wheel)
Toro Dingo 322 Kohler Gas (Wheel)
Toro Dingo TX 420 (Track)
Toro Dingo TX 425 Wide (Track) (Still under 48")




Lots of choices, it seems. The list above is growing to be the most comprehensive collection of competitive alternatives to the Bobcat 463 that I have found on the Internet... obviously, because I've created the list by combining all the other incomplete lists into one. Hopefully, others will fill in any holes in this list, and add commentary on their personal experiences with the models thus far listed.

 

[RobertN]

So far, I have used the Bobcat-463, and have done a short test drive of the ASV-RC30

Of note, the RC30 seemed smoother to ride in. It was different too, in that it had joystick control, instead of hand control for steering and foot control of bucket control of the Bobcat 463 I had used.

I have seen walk behinds, but did not note the brand. I originally dismissed them, but will take a peak to see what they are like.

When I did use the Bobcat-463, it worked pretty well. It was tight quarter grading and digging with tooth and smooth buckets.

Of note, you mention walk behinds with more power than the Bobcat-463. I will give credit to a haevier tractor being able to get more digging work done. Sometimes it makes a difference to get weight on the ground and traction. Sometimes, especially in wetter weather, that can be a hinderance though, especially in a skidsteer.

I have seen the Bobcat MT50. Bobcat West/Sacramento rents and sells them. Initially, they have not interested me as a wlak behind unit.

 

[RobertN]

I used the ASV RC30 all day today. I was impressed. It handled well, and did not beat me up like a skid steer. The ground was moist; I fear a skid steer would have made a big mess. This tracked machine did not...

The poower seemed balanced. The controls were pretty good, but it took some getting used to since I was used to the Bobcat with foot control for the bucket.

As with many others, it was loud to sit around for a long time. The manufacturers really should get better muffler setups. My Kubota is the same way; not loud at first, but after hours it drones on...

This was a rental unit. I was dissappointed at how loose the the bucket flopped around. Seems like a lot of wear on the pivoot pins for relatively low hours.

I'll see how it progresses tomorrow. I have it signed out for three days...