Bigger tires John Deere 110 / 4000 series

[Nasablue]

I have a 2002 John Deere 110 which is basically a yellow 4000 series with some heavy duty loader and back hoe. Great machine with a 4 cyl yanmar and yellow. I used the search a little but couldn’t quite find exactly what I was looking to put on larger tires that increase the front and rear equally on a 4wd tractor.

The stock tire size is 10-16.5 front and 17.5L-24 rear. A size up is going to a 12-16.5 front and 19.5L-24 rear. They increase the tire diameter 6.1% and 6.3% respectively. I’ve read that .25% is the tolerance before you get 4wd bind, which it currently gets with the mismatched worn out ones. I think I’m ok here.

Here’s the real question. The wheels are 8.25x16.5 in the front but typically the 12-16.5 tires are on 9.75 or 10 x16.5” wheels.

Would the stock rims be too small or compromise the tire function, or not be wide enough to give a flat tread?

Would the load of the larger tires be too much for the machine’s axles or hydrostatic drive?

Thanks for your help

 

[Reddogs]

You also have to remember the tire ratios have to match up with 4wd with whatever sizes you put on...

 

[rScotty]

I have a 2002 John Deere 110 which is basically a yellow 4000 series with some heavy duty loader and back hoe. Great machine with a 4 cyl yanmar and yellow. I used the search a little but couldn’t quite find exactly what I was looking to put on larger tires that increase the front and rear equally on a 4wd tractor.

The stock tire size is 10-16.5 front and 17.5L-24 rear. A size up is going to a 12-16.5 front and 19.5L-24 rear. They increase the tire diameter 6.1% and 6.3% respectively. I’ve read that .25% is the tolerance before you get 4wd bind, which it currently gets with the mismatched worn out ones. I think I’m ok here.

Here’s the real question. The wheels are 8.25x16.5 in the front but typically the 12-16.5 tires are on 9.75 or 10 x16.5” wheels.

Would the stock rims be too small or compromise the tire function, or not be wide enough to give a flat tread?

Would the load of the larger tires be too much for the machine’s axles or hydrostatic drive?

Thanks for your help

I've done some of this swapping. The numbers you are using aren't quite right....not yet refined enough. But you are proceeding in the right direction. Typically you want to stay on the "positive" side of the Front to Rear ratio and the closer you get to zero the better. By Zero here, I mean that the Front to Rear loaded rolling circumference of the tires matches the internal gear ratios for the front to rear axle rotations.
Manufacturers try to stay within +5% of those ratios. The + indicates that the front tires are rotating slightly faster than the rears to maintain steering control.

BTW, when comparing tires, you cannot use arithmatic diameters. Tires are not circles and the difference is surprisingly large. You must use "loaded rolling circumference" you will find that in the tech specs for most tires. It will vary quite a bit even on tires with the numbers you are using now. Numbers like 8.25x 16.5 are RIM dimensions....not tire dimensions.

A good place to start is calculating what you have stock for a Front to Rear Ratio. To do that in today's computer world, you look up the specs on the OEM tires that came on your 110 and do your calculations using "loaded rolling circumference. To do the same thing more accurately in the real world you mark the tire with a blob of wet paint and drive down the road in 2wd. Measuring between the paint marks for both front and rear tires will give you the exact real "loaded rolling circumference".
At that point you could just try to match the original tire Front to Rear Ratio to what you expect from different tires..

If you want, you can also compare the tire's rolling circumference with the internal gearing. That will give you the ability to change wheels as well as tires. To measure the internal gearing many shop manuals will have it as a spec. If not, jack up one side of the tractor with F & R wheels off the ground, put it in 4wd, and count revolutions while rotating one of the tires by hand. Count # of rotations of the front tire to accomplish a complete rotation of the rear.

As for your questions on tire size and load, again you need to be comparing the tire's loaded rolling circumference to calculate load changes. The numbers you are using are for wheel width and diameter.

Let us know what you find.
rScotty

 

[Nasablue]

I spoke with the tire shop and after they consulted a group of mechanics/Techs, they said it should be no problem. I’ll take some actual loaded and unloaded measurements, but the ones that are on there are completely mismatched (R4front worn flat, turf rear with maybe 3/8-1/2” left) so I don’t think that‘ll help In the evaluation so I went off the new dimensions listed in the attachments/pictures above. Since the Galaxy EZ rider doesn’t appear to have a 17.5L-24 on their product sheet, but somehow I can get one, makes me wonder if there was a typo. Regardless, I included the primex sister tire dimensions (appears to be).

 

[rScotty]

I don't think you will find your answers at the tire shop mechanics and techs. What you are wanting to do is a bit above the tech level of what they do.

First of all you are in the wrong info sheet with those advertising sheets you posted. They don't show rolling circumferenceThe specs you want are in the tire technical specs, not the advertising specs.

Yokohama makes your Galaxy tires. They are good tires. So go to the Yokohama tech spec catalogue and look them up:

https://ataoffers.atgtire.com/hubfs/Premium_content/2019%20GAP%20Catalog%20-%20APL175.pdf

You will find a general guide to rolling circumference index on page 5, and each tire will have Rolling Circumference listed under the term: "RC". You can see it below. If you would rather start with wheel size, that is on page 78.

Below is an an example of the tech specs from the Yokohama tech catalogue pg 22 for your EZ Rider R-4:

Just to check the importance of RC, take the first tire shown which is a 14.9x24. it's RC is 141.4. If you divide RC by pi, you get RC is 155". Divide that by Pi, and you get 45.03 - which when compared with the Outside Diameter (OD) of 48.2means simply that you have to use RC, not OD. Considering the tire to be round leads to an error of over 6%...... which is enough to snap an axle in 4wd.

You can do this, it just takes some calculations and the last one I did required I buy some oddball front wheels to get the ratio where I wanted. But front tractor wheels are surprisingly inexpensive. About $70 each as I recall. I was going from R1 Ags to R3 Balloon Turfs on an odd application. R4 tires are easier.
rScotty

 

[Nasablue]

That is incredible information, I can’t tell you show much I appreciate it. I‘ll sharpen my pencil.

 

[ericm979]

Also keep in mind that each manufacturer's tire model of the same nominal size will be slightly different size. I.e. not all 14.9x24 tire models will have the same circumference.

Ideally you'd start with the numbers from the tires that came stock on your machine. The difference, at least in car tires, is not huge but you are trying to stay within a small percentage difference between your fronts and rears.

Also rim width will make a difference in circumference. Car tire specs often include the rim width they were measured on.

 

[rScotty]

That is incredible information, I can’t tell you show much I appreciate it. I‘ll sharpen my pencil.

You are welcome. I well remember the skull sweat when I realized that it wasn't just simple. For example, the tire measurements are actually the wheel rim measured on the inside face of the rim where the tire mounts. And wrapping around learning that things like load and sidewall rigidity is what actually controls the shape of the tire when it is rolling - and hence the rolling circumference.

Of course you can always do it the easy way. Pay attention to using 4wd very sparingly and and just ignore the tire mismatch.
Tractors don't have full time 4wd. Most are 4wd "Assist". Designed to use 4wd sparingly, and just for a few revolutions to get yourself going again. Then stop and shift back into 2wd. If it is hard to shift out of 4wd, that's a clear danger signal.
Don't use 4wd unless a tire can slip, never on asphalt, or with a load in the bucket.

If you can treat the tractor that way you can get by with tire mismatches.

rScotty

 

[Nasablue]

 

[Nasablue]

You know, I’m a simple guy. I was within .3% delta no matter what numbers I compared so I went for it. Works great. The other tires were so worn and mismatched R4 in front and turf in the rear that these are a nice upgrade. It’s like the tire size it should have come with. I appreciate everyone’s input and time, hopefully it helps someone else. 4wd drops out like it should, no binding. In fact, it’s smoother to engage and disengage than with the old misamtched completely worn out tires.