Best operating practices vs. brute force approach

dave_upstairs · Dec 25, 2004

I am looking for a larger tractor. My current tractor is a ford 1000, 2WD, with about 25 HP (3 cyl diesel). We just got 17 inches of snow, and I had tough time clearing out the driveway (with a grader blade). I started down the county road, and gave up. So much snow, so little HP.

I had already had two conversations with 2 dealers, a local NH and a more distant Kioti dealer. My thought was upgrade to a 30 HP (top of my financial budget) 4WD model and keep using my existing attachments.

I have 5 acres, use the tractor for mowing (w/6ft finish mower), light landscaping and a little lumberjacking (we burn wood all winter). I'd like to own a rear tiller.

It occured to me, that I may be going about this all wrong. The NH dealer asked if I wanted a FEL. I said, 'no'. They seem cumbersome and might be in the way. But, I'm wondering, perhaps, a FEL would have done a better job with the snow (pick it up and carry it vs. trying to shove it around)?

Perhaps, I'd be better off looking at at 20HP tractor with FEL instead of 30 HP. Granted this snowstorm was the worst in 25 years, but I had been leaning to the larger HP as the 'brute force' solution to dragging up logs, grading dirt, etc..

Any thoughts?
p.s..: Of the two (NH or Kioti), I'm leaning toward the Kioti as the brand of choice -- that's why I'm posting here.

Dargo · Dec 25, 2004

From spending most of the last two days clearing snow from our Southern Indiana snow storm, I can tell you that you likely would run out of traction than power with a 2wd tractor. I used my FEL to blaze a trail, if you will, down a road, then came back and used my rear blade to clear the snow after that. The FEL came in handy not only for that, but I would have managed to get stuck myself several times in drifts if it were not for being able to "paddle" myself out backwards with my FEL.

From my experience with 20 to 50 hp tractors and pushing snow with a FEL, the only real advantage I notice with the 50 hp is that I can push more snow faster. With less hp I could still push pretty well all the snow I wanted with the FEL, but it just had to be in a lower gear.

Therefore, with my past experience, I would vote that you buy what your budget allows in 4wd and an FEL. For tractor brands, you're on your own. I have stayed with the big three, but I can tell you that they are not immune to having problems, and it is my understanding that many of the other brands are catching them. Good luck!

Bob_Skurka · Dec 25, 2004

Just an observation, but if you have a 6' finish mower, you will very likely overwhelm a 20hp tractor, as it will likely have about 16 pto HP, which is not going to handle mowing the lush grass that grows in Indiana. If you plan on keeping your implements, you will need a tractor with greater HP than a 20hp unit.

KiotiJohn · Dec 26, 2004

It seems from what you've posted that you're already using a 6ft finish mower with your current tractor, and as Bob said, it may be a little much for 20 HP tractor, but I don't use one, so I can't say for sure. I use a 4' brush cutter on my CK20, and could easily use a 5' from my experience thus far.
If I were buying new, and had to do what you want to do, I'd opt for the 30 HP in whichever brand you want. I'm particularly fond of the CK30, and either the HST of Shuttle would be good options. Also, the LK3054XS would also be an excellent choice, but only comes in the mechanical shuttle shift (need to stop before shifting F/R shuttle).
If I were you, I'd check out these two, WITH a FEL, as you will find plenty of uses for it beyond the snow.
The CK30 has a lot of great standard features including Joystick and main hydraulic valve, telescoping hitch arms and stabilizers, cruise, tilt wheel etc. It's a fine stong tractor. Go ride some. John

PBinWA · Dec 26, 2004

When I started looking at tractors a friend told me that the weight of the tractor is as important as the HP rating especially when dealing with large implements and FEL work. You might be able to get better use out of your current tractor with weighted tires and R4 Industrial tires or chains for the snow. I'd think a 2WD is only going to be so useful in the snow. You may want to get a 25 HP tractor with a heavy frame and 4WD if you are looking for a good multi-purpose machine. I'd suspect that a 30HP tractor would be too much for only 5 acres - but it would still be nice to have.

If you need a recommendation for the wife - I'll vouch for a bigger tractor for you!

/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

JimR · Dec 26, 2004

I would look for a 4wd with fel and around 27-30 hp. This can handle the things that you want to do. Buy used and save yourself some money.

DK35vince · Dec 26, 2004

( Buy used and save yourself some money. )

Well sometimes you can anyway.
When I started looking for a newer tractor with 4 wheel drive and a loader all the used machines I ran across ( in my area anyway) were in poor condition, over priced, combination of both or just not exactly what I was looking for.
I found what I felt was a very good deal on my DK 35 and went new for not a lot more money than the used machines I looked at.
With the low intrest rates on the new machines, warrenty and small differances in prices I was finding I'm glad I went new..

Bob_Skurka · Dec 26, 2004

In the original post, Dave_Upstairs wrote: I have 5 acres, use the tractor for mowing (w/6ft finish mower), light landscaping and a little lumberjacking (we burn wood all winter). I'd like to own a rear tiller.


I have been thinking more about this and am not sure what you really should do! Given most of the grasses I know about in Indiana, you need plenty of PTO hp to run that 6ft finish mower you already own. So that said, you need to look at tractors that are in the same general HP rating as the one you currently own. So for shopping purposes, I'd say you want to look at 26 to 30hp. I would also guess that 40% or more of the hours you put on your tractor are probably spent mowing the lawn???

Now here is where all the tricky stuff starts to come into play. You are having trouble with snow, there is a place where traction becomes an issue and weight equals traction. A modest weight 4wd drive tractor will provide about as much traction as a slightly heavier 2wd, so you can stay with a tractor that is roughly similar weight to the one you own and you will gain traction because of 4wd. If you go to a slighly lighter tractor, will will still likely have similar traction because of 4wd. You can always add some chains for the occasional winter snow storm.

But really how important is a lot of traction to you? Most of your work is likely to be lawn mowing, if that is true, then you really are probably better off with a lighter tractor, mowing is not a task where weight is important and weight can be a serious drawback if you have clay soil.

You are doing some light landscaping, again, because you define it as "light" then the issue of traction is really not a big issue, so going to a light tractor will not be a serious trade off.

You want a tiller. That is an implement that requires a reasonable amount of PTO hp. Weight of the tractor is not an issue either way. Light or heavy, makes no difference for tilling.

"Lumberjacking" is typically the realm heavy 4wd machines, but if you are doing the task with a 2wd tractor, I suspect the lumber jacking is pretty light duty stuff, so again, you could get by with a lighter weight 4wd tractor as it will offer traction similar to your current 2wd tractor. A heavier 4wd tractor will certainly pull a heavier log than a lighter one.

I'd suggest a FEL if you can work it into your budget. For FEL work you need a properly balanced tractor. Generally speaking a heavier machine will have greater capacity, but that is not always true. However, I suspect that is not a major issue as you currently do not have an FEL, I would think that even a moderate capacity FEL would provide you with plenty of utility and you'd find uses for it that you have never even considered.

So all that said, if I was you, and IF MY THOUGHTS ABOUT MOWING are close to correct, then I would look at a light to medium weight machine, in 4wd, with roughly 26-to-30-hp.

dave_upstairs · Dec 26, 2004

You are right about the finish mower size. It came with the tractor, along with a heavy duty 6ft blade (Rhino 350). I bought a used 5ft flail mower last spring and mowed with it most of the summer.

The finish mower is nice in that it covers the width of the tires (65 inches), but I have to raise it in heavy grass or the tractor really lugs down. In reality, I mow less than an acre (unless I do a little charity work for a neighbor) -- I just like spending my time doing other things.

Of course, if I traded up, this mower would be perfect behind a 30HP model.

What I think I'm going to do is look for a 'cheapie' 5ft grader blade. This 6ft blade is so heavy on the backend, that stearing in a straight line is impossible. At one point, my front wheels were fully turned and plowing as much snow as the blade! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

My guess is that I will probably plow the same amount of snow with the 5ft blade (faster, longer run) than with the 6ft (getting bogged down, backing up, etc...).

My 'lumberjacking' is light duty -- I'm just getting older and the trees seem to be getting heavier each year /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif A FEL would be handy for lifting and end of a log up, letting it down on a chunk of wood, so that I could cut along the free end. A 3pt boom might do the trick as well.

I appreciate everyone's comments.

Bob_Skurka · Dec 26, 2004

Dave . . . a 3pt boom pole will lift the end of the logs, but won't be as versitile as a FEL; it also will probably cost at least $3000 less than the FEL would cost.

A 6' finish mower is pretty much ideal with a 30hp tractor. I have a 5' finish mower and it bogs down in the grass & clover. Grass in Indiana USDA Zones 5 & 6 is some pretty lush stuff and can really choke a mower deck. My experience is that from Texas and along the gulf coast into the Atlantic coast in Georgia is that those guys have a whole different type of grass that doesn't compare to the good old midwest. The western states are much more arrid and again the grass is very different that we have. I can't speak to the Pacific NW and northern CA.

As for your blade work in the snow, have you considered spinning it backwards and pushing it in reverse? I found it much harder on my neck, but much more effective to push snow backwards.

Have you considered simply trading everything in and buying something new where all the implements were sized properly to the tractor? With so many of the manufacturers offering 0% financing, it might be a reasonable thing to consider. If you want to continue to use the 6' mower deck you are locking yourself into a 30hp tractor, and with only 1 acre to mow, you might find a small frame tractor, of roughly 25 hp, faster at mowing because of manuverability. A small frame 4wd tractor will probably do your light duty lumberjacking without much trouble and it will handle a 5' grader blade too (you could also cut down the grader blade by taking 6" off each side).