BCS 750 gearbox oil

[bluesilver]

Hi, i am guessing this has been asked may time before, but still a tad confused.
I asked the dearler that i got the machine from and didn't really get an answer that i think is correct,
They basically told me to use Castrol Gear oil MTX
Castrol Gear Oil MTX

I was looking at using John Deere HY-Gard Hydraulic/Transmission oil, Tells me it is the same or exceeds John Deere JDM J 20c
Has anyone used this in their BCS Gearbox?

I seen the Service Bulletin 2-22 But as i am from Australia, it is hard to find an oil equivalent as most of these we can't get here.
Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.
Peter.

 

[Jens767]

Hi Peter

You are absolutely right - this has been a popular topic in this forum, since the PowerSafe models were introduced by BCS in Europe in 2011, and a year later in the US.

You will find a lot of useful information in the following thread, which also has a link to a thread discussing the PowerSafe clutch in more detail:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/2-wheeled-tractors/378180-bcs-853-transmission-oil.html

I bought an early BCS 740 PowerSafe model in 2011, and I have followed the recommended oil and filter changes as specified in the users manual. Approaching 200 hours on my tractor now, I will change the transmission oil for the second time shortly. After I changed the oil for the first time after 100 hours, I felt a little change in the way the clutch engaged. Whether this was due to the different brand of oil or not, I cannot tell, but it is my impression, that one should not make any experiments or compromises when it comes to using the proper oil. The PowerSafe clutch is a more complex clutch compared to the traditional cone clutch, and you could safe yourself a lot of trouble, my using one of the recommended types, I think. In #108 in the "PowerSafe clutch on BCS" thread, Maxxjod has listed oils that he recommends.

To me it sounds like your dealer is perhaps not fully aware of the difference between a traditional spring-activated clutch, and the hydraulic-activated one on the PowerSafe models. Your owners manual should also specify which oil to use. My manual recommends Agip ROTRA MP SAE 80W-90, which meets the all important API GL-5 requirements:

http://www.eni-q5.com/fileadmin/FILES/rotra_mp.pdf

The Castrol MTX recommended by your dealer, only has the GL-4 rating though. I used the Castrol EPX 80W-90 for my first oil change, as it fulfils the GL-5 requirements, and it has worked fine.

I hope this helped a little?


Best regards

Jens

 

[Ford850]

I think the full synthetic MTX does meet GL-5.
Since the BCS service bulletin from 2016 recommends JDM J 20C, and the newer JD HY-Gard surpasses that oil, I would think that is also fine.

 

[bluesilver]

Thanks for the information, it is appreciated.
Jens 767, is this the oil that you used?
Castrol EPX Differential & Manual Transmission Fluid - 8W-9, 4 Litre - Supercheap Auto

If so i can obtain this oil very easy, and is it still working fine, no issues?
Just thought it might of been a bit thick for running a wet clutch.

 

[bluesilver]

I have been doing some more thinking on this also, kind of came up with the idea that a simple limited slip diff oil around SAE 90 might be just the same,
Work on the same sort of principles, friction and has a GL-5 rating.
Was looking at something like this.
NULON OIL LIMITED SLIP DIFF SAE 9 4L

Or am i possible looking at it all wrong?

 

[Jens767]

Hi again Peter

The oil I used is this one:

Castrol Axle EPX 8W-9 | Castrol Australia | Castrol Automatic Transmission Fluids (ATF) | Castrol™ Australia | Car - Motor Oil & Lubricants | Castrol Australia | Products | Castrol Australia | Castrol™ Engine Oil & Lubricants - Castrol™ Australia

I am not an oil and lubrication expert, but as said, I have the impression that the proper oil is essential to a trouble free function of the PowerSafe clutch. The oil that you are linking to in your post #4, states "Manual" instead of "Axle" on the oil container. If that makes a difference, I don't know. If you have a good supplier of the Castrol products in you area, it should be no problem for him to get the proper one for you, and you won't have to make any - perhaps costly - experiments.

I have had no issues/problems using the above mention oil for almost 100 hours now. For whatever reason, the EPX comes in another container in my part of the world, and looks like this:

Castrol Axle EPX 8W-9 | Castrol Osterreich | Antriebsole - Offroad-Produkte | Castrol Osterreich | Offroad - Motorenol und Schmierstoffe | Castrol Osterreich | Produkte | Castrol Osterreich | Castrol - Motorenol und Schmierstoffe | Castrol Osterreich

I cannot comment on the NULON oil, but I always try to play safe, so I would go for one of the many proven brands. Maxxjod has a lot of experience in this area, with over 1000 BCS tractors sold in the UK, so in you place, I would go for one of the brands that he recommends.


Best regards

Jens

 

[bluesilver]

Cheers for the links, think i have found the same thing and you can also get it in Limited Slip which is probly even better for the clutch that the one you have right now.
Here is the one i found.
Castrol Axle Limited Slip 9 | Castrol Australia | Axle & Universal Oils - Truck and Bus | Castrol™ Australia | Truck & Bus - Motor Oil & Lubricants | Castrol Australia | Products | Castrol Australia | Castrol™ Engine Oil & Lubricants - Castrol™ Australia

I am leaning towards this one now, i do appreciate you input, so please let me know if you think i am heading in the wrong direction by thinking the limited slip oil would be better for the clutch, just going by the way the limited slip works.

 

[Maine Hills]

Limited slip lubricant may be too thick for the PowerSafe hydraulic system to operate properly, particularly when cold.

Why not use a tractor hydraulic/transmission fluid such as specified in BCS America service bulletin 2-22? https://s3.amazonaws.com/bcs-america/manuals/Service-Bulletin-2-22-2016.9.29.pdf For example Kubota UDT is one of the recommend fluids and there are four Kubota dealers in Tasmania who would have it. Dealers for other tractor brands will have equivalent fluids.

 

[bluesilver]

The main reason was as posted at the start was that it was difficult to find these oils here where i am.
But in saying that, i did miss seeing the Kubota UDT Fluid for some reason, Will call in there tomorrow.
Cheers.

 

[Jens767]

Hi again Peter

I fully agree with the above comments. You could save yourself a lot of trouble my using one of the many proven brands, like the ones mentioned in the BCS America Service Bulletin 2-22, or in the list provided by Maxxjod here:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...owersafe-clutch-bcs-11.html?highlight=maxxjod

As you seem to have dealers in your area selling the Castrol and Kubota products, you should easily be able to get one of the types mentioned above. I dont think that you are looking at it all wrong, but I think that you are perhaps making it more complicated for yourself than necessary. There are so many proven products to choose between, some of which are also available in your area, that I dont see why you should take the risk of using what might turn out to be the wrong one.

Whether the Limited Slip version of the Castrol oil is a better choice or not, is hard to tell. This oil is not on the above mentioned lists, so why take the risk? It might be the better choice for some applications, but as it isn't recommended for the BCS tractors, I would not use it.

On a traditional mechanically activated clutch - like the one on the non-PowerSafe BCS models for example - the clutch parts are pressed together by powerful springs, enabling the clutch to transfer torque from the engine to the drivetrain. By squeezing the clutch handle towards the handlebar, you compress the springs, disengaging the clutch, by allowing the parts to rotate separately. The PowerSafe clutch ist still a mechanically clutch, but it is hydraulically activated! Instead of springs to provide the force needed to engage the clutch, the PowerSafe clutch has a little oil pump that provides pressure to force the parts together. Disengaging the clutch at the clutch handle, simply opens a valve, interrupting the oil flow to the clutch, allowing it to open. This is also the main reason, that it takes so little effort to disengage the clutch on the PowerSafe models, as you simply open the little valve, instead of having to squeeze a number of powerfull springs.

The PowerSafe clutch is a wet type clutch, running in the same oil as the oil pump is using to engage the clutch, and I feel confident that the engineers at BCS have had their reasons to recommend the type of oil that they do, to make sure that it fulfils both the requirement for the pump and the clutch at the same time.

Whatever type of oil you decide to go for, it would be nice to hear about your experience later on. That could be another chance for all of us to learn something new :thumbsup:


Best regards

Jens