Battery Charger / Desulphator - BatteryMINDer 12117 $25 - (& comparison to Ebay junk)

[California]

Battery Charger / Desulphator - BatteryMINDer 12117 $25 - (& comparison to Ebay junk)

I saw Ford 850's thread 'Batteryminder 1500 Review' and it got me thinking. Thanks Ford 850 and all the replies!

I wondered if anything similar on Ebay direct from China might be cheaper as is sometimes the case.
But I came back to buying Batteryminder's earlier $25 model #12117. It lacks the temperature compensation in the new #1500, but #12117 has many satisfied customers. Amazon reviews say its excellent.


I looked at Ebay offerings, Amazon offerings/reviews, and YouTube bogus 'reviews'. Then bought BatteryMINDer #12117. $25 from Northern Tool. I bought it off Ebay because the price (with free shipping) is the same as direct from NT and Ebay/Paypal payment is simpler. Amazon is higher due to shipping unless you have Prime.

In the research I did, I saw a lot of claimed desulphaters that on closer examination didn't seem to do anything.

This version with nice digital display (ebay link)

appears on Ebay from $18, to $80 on Amazon. It isn't a charger, it draws from the battery, and is claimed to provide the high frequency spikes that desulphate. One YouTube technical review got no useful result from it and in his comments there were posts from EE's saying the design inherently can't do what it claims.

This type - search Ebay (item & description) on RA501R -

...has a nice technical-looking graph that combined with the text, shows that desulphate occurs only in the first half hour after you plug it in. Then it switches to charge/float cycle. However desulphating can take weeks and this design per their description (if accurate) will not desulphate continually, just once per plugin. Thanks, no.
Here's one of the Ebay listings with that intriguing but self-defeating description:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-Car-Mo...hash=item2830d9e06d:m:mT2EVQEi-GesIObw4x2-PWA

Both of the units above have numerous YouTube vids showing only unwrapping the unit and taking it out of the box! Mostly in Russian. Totally useless bogus reviews! Why???

So after wasting time on reviews of cheap units direct from China I went and ordered the BatteryMINDer # 12117. The China 'desulphators' at/below Batteryminder's price were useless per everything I read today.

And one point that may not be apparent: Any desulphator I saw needs the battery charged with a conventional charger before it can be used. They don't put out enough current for more than minimal top-up charging.

 

[Gregster613]

Re: Battery Charger / Desulphator - BatteryMINDer 12117 $25 - (& comparison to Ebay j

All right and way to go California! That's what I was trying to decide/discover...did I waste my $$ and time buying a "battery Tender" to prevent desulphation or was I in the ballpark? That is the thought/idea I tried to present in my questions per the batteryminder 1500 review thread. The "thin" manual I received does not thoroughly explain all processes. I viewed numerous vids also and you are right - most only talk about "unwrapping" the new item and don't get ever or really discuss actual results. Thanks for your insights and research determinations!

 

[thepumpguysc]

Re: Battery Charger / Desulphator - BatteryMINDer 12117 $25 - (& comparison to Ebay j

I bought a Centech "automatic battery float charger" on a shopping spree at Harbor Freight..
"THINKING" that it charges batteries.. NOT
It says in the directions> "ONLY MAINTAINS a topped off battery"..
So HOW can it claim to be a "charger"???

 

[Langanobob]

Re: Battery Charger / Desulphator - BatteryMINDer 12117 $25 - (& comparison to Ebay j

Not sure about their latest models, I have some older BatteryMinder charger/maintainer/desulphaters. They work very well as battery chargers and maintainers. I think any reasonably good battery maintainer will prevent sulfation. The question is, as they claim, do these devices actually remove sulfation once it’s occurred? I don’t have any evidence that they do. I just use them for their charging and maintaining capability.

 

[deserteagle71]

Re: Battery Charger / Desulphator - BatteryMINDer 12117 $25 - (& comparison to Ebay j

I don't claim to know how these things work but I do know they work.

Now that I'm on the wrong side of 70 I've become a "warm weather" rider as far as my dirt bike and quad are concerned. Used to ride year round but can't stand the cold any more so both the bike and quad get parked in the barn in October and generally won't be fired up again until April. Not using them for so many months out of the year just killed the batteries - a new battery would be lucky to last 2-3 years. So I bought a couple of the Northern Tool battery minder/desulfators a few years ago, and since then when I park the bike and quad I immediately connect them to the battery minders. Haven't had to replace a battery since.

 

[frugalangler]

Re: Battery Charger / Desulphator - BatteryMINDer 12117 $25 - (& comparison to Ebay j

There is lot's of technical proof that 'electronic de-sulfation' does in fact work, but........

I've studied the technology extensively, I actually now build my own units (NO, don't ask me to sell you one) and have done extensive testing using a base of acquired marine batteries. What I will offer:
connections matter - keep the leads as short as possible using fairly large gauge wire (mine are actually made to sit on top of the battery with the leads only long enough to reach the terminals)
a small charger/maintainer is required - the de-sulfator generally gets it's power from the DUT (device under test) (I don't pay a lot of attention to what I use for a charger, anywhere from a 'tender to a 15A auto unit
the quality of the components and the circuit design of the de-sulfator matters - I've tested some I built w/ cheap components as I developed my circuit, I found a few key components that I spend a top $$ to get quality

generally, if a battery is sulfated, it will show an open terminal voltage near it's rated, but when you attach a old style manual charger it won't take a charge or a new auto style will error showing 'bad battery' or such. These are candidates for electronic de-sulfation. I'll document it's open terminal voltage, attach my device, and a charger, and make sure it's got water. I leave it for 30 days or so, detach the charger and device, let it set for a few hours and compare the open terminal voltage to original reading. If it's in the range of > 12.6V, I'll then do a load test w/ a 50A load and see what the terminal voltage drops to. This will identify if there is a cell that is bad, if so it will drop a bit, then drop dramatically about 2 volts, then continue dropping as it's loaded. Usually, removing the load will return back to somewhere near 12V, but I usually don't continue w/ that battery as the bad cell will likely never recover. If the load test simply drops continuously, I then apply a smaller continuous load to discharge it down to about slightly below 11.5V, then reattach the device and charger and leave be for another 30 days. Another quick load test will verify if it is serviceable, if so I put into service keeping a de-sulfator device on it 100% of the time. (I always keep some kind of maintainer or charger on my marine batteries if there's a device on top)

My particular de-sulfator device delivers about (varies dependant on state of battery) a min 50V pulse to as much as 150V for about 3 microseconds every millisecond. You can actually here it 'sing' when it's working, about a 1Khz tone emitted from the coils inside it.

I've also tried some of the eBay junk, it's that - junk, I've not found one that works, and I've used some of the commercial ones, I've a couple auto-chargers w/ de-sulfate modes and a battery-minder that work OK, but I went my DIY route for a couple reasons, I'm electronic engineer by education, and cost - I can build my own better for cheaper, and since I'm putting one on every storage battery I have, I need a lot of them (5 boats w/ multiple cell banks on-board) plus the satisfaction of debunking a myth. I have a couple off-grid acquaintances that also swear by the technology, as they have built their power banks w/ discarded batteries.

just trying to contribute, the technology is SOLID, it's the quality of the implementation that either makes or breaks it's success.

 

[California]

Re: Battery Charger / Desulphator - BatteryMINDer 12117 $25 - (& comparison to Ebay j

My particular de-sulfator device delivers about (varies dependant on state of battery) a min 50V pulse to as much as 150V for about 3 microseconds every millisecond.

Is there any risk this can damage delicate electronics that are connected continuously?

 

[frugalangler]

Re: Battery Charger / Desulphator - BatteryMINDer 12117 $25 - (& comparison to Ebay j

Not sure about their latest models, I have some older BatteryMinder charger/maintainer/desulphaters. They work very well as battery chargers and maintainers. I think any reasonably good battery maintainer will prevent sulfation. The question is, as they claim, do these devices actually remove sulfation once it’s occurred? I don’t have any evidence that they do. I just use them for their charging and maintaining capability.

You are correct, they will prevent sulfation IF: to prevent a battery from becoming sufated, it must be re-charged IMMEDIATELY after the discharge load is removed. Sulfation occurs when a battery is left in a discharge state, the longer before re-charge, the more sulfates can build up. So, putting ANY charger on a battery after use or during storage will prevent sulfates from building. Now, to de-sulfate, see my other post.

 

[BigBlue1]

Re: Battery Charger / Desulphator - BatteryMINDer 12117 $25 - (& comparison to Ebay j

I bought a Centech "automatic battery float charger" on a shopping spree at Harbor Freight..
"THINKING" that it charges batteries.. NOT
It says in the directions> "ONLY MAINTAINS a topped off battery"..
So HOW can it claim to be a "charger"???

A battery 'tender' or 'maintainer' DOES charge the battery, but just at smaller levels than your typical large charger. It is intended to monitor the battery's state and apply a small charge from time to time to bring the battery's voltage level back up. These typically do not have the capability to introduce enough charge to bring a 'discharged' battery back to life. It's not a scam and it is not misleading. They are doing a job and that job is specific and different from your normal 1.5A/10A charger. Those larger chargers aren't meant to be left connected to a battery for extended periods of time (well, maybe some can do that, but only if they specifically offer that mode). They are meant to hook to a discharged battery and charge it up to full capacity. Then you unhook it. The battery tender/maintainer is meant to be left connected all the time that you have the vehicle or battery out of service.

Rob

 

[frugalangler]

Re: Battery Charger / Desulphator - BatteryMINDer 12117 $25 - (& comparison to Ebay j

Is there any risk this can damage delicate electronics that are connected continuously?

That depends, if the device is connected closely - not by a fair length of wire, it /could/ be. Generally, which is why condition 1 in my post, connect the device w/ the shortest leads possible, the longer length of wire acts as a high frequency filter so the impact of those spikes is much reduced - but, I have master switches on my boats for when they sit idle, but I've not experienced any failures and I run some very expensive sonar graphs on mine. Again, the key is the inherent 'choke' characteristic of a long piece of wire to the very narrow spike I use -

I don't think the eBay units are nearly as aggressive as the one I build, so I'd suspect they would be safe, but I won't go on record with any recommendation for obvious reasons. A three microsecond pulse relates to about a 333KHz signal, but because it's a pulse, the leading and falling edges represent a very much higher frequency - the higher the frequency the more inherent choke characteristics become.

If a concern, a ferrite bead can be placed on the power wires to any electronic device, even a doughnut shaped one w/ the wire wrapped through it a few times would eliminate any potential damage, IMHO.