Buying Advice Backhoe or digger options?

Fallon · Aug 24, 2015

I have a Kubota L3200 as does a friend. She has 40 acres they are going to be building on (daughter has 40 acres next door as well to be built on in a few years as well & is needing a backhoe. I'm guessing maybe averaging 100 hours of work a year over the next 10 years, probably with most of that in the next couple of years. I'll probably borrow it occasionally, but that's not my main concern at all. Other than me borrowing it, or hauling it to a mechanic (if it can't be worked on onsite) they really shouldn't have any need to transport it. I don't think it will be called on to do much if any stump removal (think the biggest tree on the property is maybe 12" down near the creek, but none near the building site). Ditches, maybe some trenching, maybe some digging out of some knee high Yucca. The house building & foundation work will all be done by the builder not her.

She's owned a Terramite & Mahindra tractor with a Mahindra backhoe (not sure what model, slightly smaller than our L3200s) previously. She really like the Terramite a lot & was defaulting to looking for another one. The Mahindra wasn't that great or sturdy of a tractor, but she ran the manual crash box on it just fine. While a good operator, she's not too mechanically inclined & much more than an oil change will require a mechanic (I'll probably help out with some small stuff to keep my borrowing privileges).

Budget is about $9k, which if my research holds would cover these 4 options. I'm pretty mechanically inclined, can do a decent inspection on a machine & will probably help her when acquiring it. Acquisition time is probably before winter, so there is time to hunt for a good deal & good equipment on all options.

A used Terramite or similar (mini backhoe)

Pro's: She's owned one before & liked it, a little more loader capacity than our L3200s, spare machine if you get the other stuck, relatively easy for me to borrow,
Con's: Doesn't bring that much to the table over her current tractor other than the hoe

An old real backhoe (1975 Backhoe 4500 Ford��DRASTICALLY REDUCED��**Quick Sale Needed* was the one that set off this discussion, although there are others around)

Pro's: Way more digging power, Way more lifting power, way more pulling power, you can't beat a heavy machine for just getting any tractoring job done, TractorData.com Ford 4500 industrial tractor information says it's about twice the machine our L3200s are depending on how you measure
Con's: Old machine may need repairs & have hard to find parts, another machine to maintain, maxes out my tow but not trailer capacity if I'm borrowing it

Backhoe implement & subframe (Kubota, Woods, etc.) to strap onto her L3200

Pros: No extra machine to maintain, relatively easy for me to borrow, a couple grand cheaper (more so if we happen to find a used one)
Con's: have to hitch & unhitch, no spare tractor when you are stuck

An older used mini-excavator

Pro's: I think they are cool:cool2:, optimized for digging
Con's: She isn't excited about one at all every time I bring one up so it's probably not likely :thumbdown:, slow transport speed, another machine to maintain

What would you guys recommend?

I think the main contest is between an old real backhoe & a not quite as old Terramite. Are the maintenance issues on an older backhoe likely to be a significant challenge? Are parts going to be a big challenge? I'd like to recommend an older hoe for the greater functionality, but wonder if the maintenance issues would be to much.

John_Mc · Aug 25, 2015

Mini excavators are great tools, but a lot to take care of. If it's tracked, not being mechanically inclined is a negative for owning one. Another pice fo equipment to take acre of is also definitely a factor.

I bought a used Woods 7500 backhoe for my tractor. It was originally set up for 3 pt hitch mount, but I had my dealer convert it to mount on the Woods subframe (I think they called it a 4 point hitch?) It was a GREAT purchase. It digs very well, and th esubframe mount was definitely the way to go - it's a much more stable mounting method for a backhoe. There are still times I wish I owned a mini excavator, but there is no way I could justify owning one for as little as I use it (not to mention that sitting around unused is th eworst thing you can do for equipment like this.

Once I had taken th ebackhoe on and off a couple of times, I can get it on in less than 10 minutes, even if I haven't done it in a while. If I put it on and off more often, I bet I could beat 10 minutes significantly.

Boondox · Aug 26, 2015

Having tried both, I have to state that NOTHING beats a mini-excavator. I had a Woods 9500 on my L4610. It did manage to do most of what I needed to do, but I spent a huge amount of time repositioning it, trying to maneuver between obstructions, etc. A friend let me borrow his KX-71 and there was no turning back! I bought a used KX-121-3S intending to resell it in a year after the big projects were done, but a year came and went and it's still here even though these days it's used mainly for burying dog poop, cleaning out ditches, holding logs up to waist height so I don't have to bend over when using the chainsaw, etc. Sometimes I dig ten foot deep holes to bury my wife's junk where she won't find it. (She's a packrat, but out of sight - out of mind.)

Maintenance is not difficult. Oil and filter changes, hydraulic fluid changes, lots of grease fittings. Mine is rubber tracked and after seven years of use on sharp granite they finally needed replacing. The tracks are expensive, but very easy to swap out.

I'd never go back to a backhoe.

IslandTractor · Aug 26, 2015

There is little question that either a miniexcavator or a used full size backhoe would be a much more powerful digging machine than a mid sized CUT with a subframe backhoe (probably 8ft size for the L3200). That said, if you are not an expert diesel and hydraulic mechanic then buying an older digging machine is a serious risk with regard to repairs. One could reasonably expect to get ten years use out of a new subframe mounted backhoe without anything other than routine greasing. Not true of an already well used full size BH or mini excavator. I'd say it depends on 1) your ability and willingness to do heavy equipment maintenance tasks and 2) just how heavy duty a machine you really need. I have a 9ft Woods BH on my CUT and a local contractor has a mini excavator. We do essentially the same jobs but he is faster. I've got the time so I much prefer the idea of one less engine and device to maintain. On the other hand, there is no question that having a dedicated BH/excavator means that you don't have to futz with mounting and dismounting the BH from the tractor which can easily eat up 30 minutes. I tend to collect BH jobs and do them all at once rather than mounting and dismounting the BH constantly. I probably mount/dismount the BH twice a year.

John_Mc · Aug 27, 2015

Well said, Island Tractor. Mini-ex or full-sized is certainly faster and easier, especially for big jobs. However, if you don't have that many big jobs, it's just another piece of equipment to take care of. I used by backhoe a lot when I first got it, and I've used a mini-excavator. I just don't have enough need to justify keeping an excavator around.

Fallon · Aug 27, 2015

She seems to be defaulting to a Terramite or the like as she had one before & liked it. I'm just trying to look at the bigger picture. A Terramite doesn't bring much to the table other than the backhoe. The L3200 can do everything else equal or better than a Terramite, other than the backhoe.

A real backhoe would up the game in terms of loader lift capacity & pulling stuff out that's stuck, not to mention a more capable digger. My (and her) big quandary is the increased chance of mechanical issues with an older machine worth the extra capacity of a real full sized hoe. It would be a used Terramite against a really used real older backhoe. If parts are still reasonably available for the older hoes, that's probably not that bad of a way to go is my thinking. If parts aren't available, that's a problem. Everything breaks down & an older hoe will probably break down a bit quicker then a not quite so old mini-hoe. The extra capacity would probably be worth it if you can find parts to get it back running again.

Personally I'm convinced on a mini-excavator, but she isn't. As she's the one buying things not me I couldn't force the issue & really it's not worth overlooking the operator comfort factor.

DavesTractor · Aug 27, 2015

The Terramite has a pretty stout backhoe and loader. The tractor itself is sort of slow as far as transport, but they are more capable than many people think. An old full size backhoe for less than $10k can be a can of worms unless you really shop hard for a well taken care of unit....and have luck. If a transmission fails, your $9k backhoe becomes a $15k backhoe or a yard ornament.

I too prefer a mini-excavator. I have a TB125 Takeuchi with a thumb and I really like it. I'd never sell it unless perhaps I moved up to a 135. But a decent one is nearer to $20k than $10k.

terryknight · Aug 27, 2015

I vote older fullsize backhoe. you will need to be mechanically inclined and have larger tools than most weekend DIY people. We have an 86 Case 580E. it's been great. bought it for $6500 7-8-9 years ago, since then put $2500 ish into it. repaired a few hoses,replaced some fittings. resealed a few cylinders, new starter, changed the hydraulic fluid, have 2 more cylinders to replace. put several hundred hours on it. only major issue is transport, but we road it for work to farm to farm. it will out dig any CUT, parts are easy to get, and having the loader is very helpful.

loader capacity very handy

no problem loading a large dump truck

digging a grave for my aunt horse

John_Mc · Aug 28, 2015

How often is this likely to get used, after the initial round of projects is completed? If you have a bunch to do now, have you considered renting a mini-excavator for now? It would get some of those bigger projects done where an excavator shines, and let her try operating one before she makes a decision. It's hard to imagine how much faster an excavator is than a tractor with a backhoe if you've never run one. (I've never even seen a terramite, so can;t comment on that).

Fallon · Sep 9, 2015

terryknight said:
I vote older fullsize backhoe. you will need to be mechanically inclined and have larger tools than most weekend DIY people. We have an 86 Case 580E. it's been great. bought it for $6500 7-8-9 years ago, since then put $2500 ish into it. repaired a few hoses,replaced some fittings. resealed a few cylinders, new starter, changed the hydraulic fluid, have 2 more cylinders to replace. put several hundred hours on it. only major issue is transport, but we road it for work to farm to farm. it will out dig any CUT, parts are easy to get, and having the loader is very helpful.

There in lies the rub, she's not mechanically inclined. She would need to hit me up if I was available, or get a real mechanic for most stuff. If it wasn't for that, I'd heavily push that option.

I checked out a Allmand TBL (basically a Terramite, only little bit bigger, 7k lbs or so). Not a bad machine. Very slow, but usable. The seller was a bit to proud of it though. May check back with him after it's been on the market a while longer & he's willing to negotiate down towards her budget.

Renting isn't high on the options list. With 80 acres out there, there will likely be projects for years that would benefit from a hoe, so she's really looking for the convenience factor of just having one around.

She's not in a rush, although I have a couple upcoming projects I want to borrow her not yet existent hoe for.