B2775 hydraulic snow blade leak

[NEPA guy]

It was an uneventful year with the 2650, which I was thankful for. We didn't have too bad a winter and I'm getting pretty good at swapping the snow blower and the blade back and forth when I need to. I start up the machine once a week and let it run for 15-20 minutes just to keep it in good shape if its not in use.

Just before parking it back in the garage, I usually turn the blade to the right and then back to the left before straightening it and resting it on the floor.
This time it wouldn't turn to the left. I upped the rpms to 2000 and tried turning it to the left again, and that's when I saw it start to leak. I lost almost gallon of fluid. I'm lucky in the respect that it happened in my garage and not while clearing the road.

I've never fixed anything like this, is this something I can do myself? Is it just a seal issue or could something else be wrong. I only have 190 hours on the 2650 and I had the shop change the fluid and filters prematurely on 9/12/17 at 134 hours.

Why would this happen after say no more than 20 hours of actual use over the past 2 years? It wasn't even under load. It was purchased 5/9/2016 so I'm hoping its still under warranty, I haven't looked that up yet.

Also why is the fluid leaking milky white?

Any feedback would be appreciated.

 

[captronr]

Is the blade itself just two years old? Or might it have sat on a dealers lot for ? years?

Are the "scratch marks" on the exposed cylinder shaft just oil smears, or are there scratches on the shaft? If scratched, the shaft can eat a seal in no time.

As to the milky color, my guess is water in the oil. If the blade sat outside before assembly, water might have gotten inside that cylinder, and now it could be throughout your tractor's system.

I suggest your going in position is ask the dealer to put a new cylinder on the blade and drain/flush your tractor system. To me, anything less than that is not very acceptable.

Installing a new cylinder would not be hard, ($, but not hard). Time and effort of taking care of the oil is another matter.


Ron

 

[NEPA guy]

Thanks for the reply. I wiped it down and took 2 more pictures, for the 2nd one I turned on the flash. See attached. It does looked scratched up...

How does that happen and is it possible to check, and do preventative maintenance on them?
My neighbor told me to rub some grease on them in the winter time to protect it from the elements. Is that bad?

As far as how long its been sitting before I bought it, I have no idea, and I doubt anyone will admit to the truth if it costs them money.

I changed the hydro fluid prematurely at 50 hours and even had the dealer swap it at 134 hours due to a mid pto issue.

I don't see how water could have gotten into the blade cylinder, especially since I've been using it each winter, (understanding that the hydo and transmission fluid are one and gets circulated through the whole system as you mentioned) and changing the fluid as often as I have been. I keep the tractor and all its implements stored in a heated garage. It doesn't make sense.

I guess I'll have to attach the blade to the tractor and trailer the whole thing out to the dealer and see if they'll flush the system and fix the cylinder.

I googled but can't find anything , how long are implements warrantied for?

 

[Dave M7040]

Thanks for the reply. I wiped it down and took 2 more pictures, for the 2nd one I turned on the flash. See attached. It does looked scratched up...

How does that happen and is it possible to check, and do preventative maintenance on them?
My neighbor told me to rub some grease on them in the winter time to protect it from the elements. Is that bad?

As far as how long its been sitting before I bought it, I have no idea, and I doubt anyone will admit to the truth if it costs them money.

I changed the hydro fluid prematurely at 50 hours and even had the dealer swap it at 134 hours due to a mid pto issue.

I don't see how water could have gotten into the blade cylinder, especially since I've been using it each winter, (understanding that the hydo and transmission fluid are one and gets circulated through the whole system as you mentioned) and changing the fluid as often as I have been. I keep the tractor and all its implements stored in a heated garage. It doesn't make sense.

I guess I'll have to attach the blade to the tractor and trailer the whole thing out to the dealer and see if they'll flush the system and fix the cylinder.

I googled but can't find anything , how long are implements warrantied for?

The reason for the leak is obviously the snap ring which has come out of its groove on the cylinder and is presently hanging off the chrome push rod.

Having one quick coupler not fully seated and therefore blocking fluid from exiting the cylinder is likely what happened. Next time before reving the engine up make certain the blade moves easily.
You ran the pump pressure up to full and literally forced the end out of the cylinder.

Scratches are insignificant.

Before hauling everything to the dealer, check the groove in the end of the cylinder on the inside. This is where the snap ring seats to retain the end of the cylinder..

See if it is all torn up or not. First try and push the end of the cylinder back into the cylinder. It will be tight. Use a wood block and hammer. Your goal is so you can see the snap ring goove.

Snap rings have a right way and a wrong way to be put into their groove. The wrong ways means it comes out of the groove under pressure.

Could someone have had this cylinder apart before and put the ring in backwards?

Study the two pages I have posted from Kubota's manual. I will go back and study your photos some more.

In your case you have an internal snap ring but the same principles of orientation apply.

To work on the cylinder, it will be easiest if you remove the quick couplers from the hoses or the hoses from the cylinder so you can move the push rod and piston. Although oil will leak out this is a small issue compared to the snap ring

If when you get the end of the cylinder out and see the snap ring groove, scrape it free of any paint or metal particles don't be afraid to push the cylinder back into position and install the snap ring in the correct orientation. If the snap ring
sharp flat edge appears damaged, take it off and go to a bearing supply place and have them match it
Reconnect the hoses and try it again. The worst that can happen is the end comes out again. Likely, if you pay attention to my cautions you will be good to go with at most the cost of a new snap ring and some oil.

Watch this youtube video to see how the work on the cylinder is done as far as the snap ring is concerned

How to Repair Snap Ring Cylinder - YouTube

Dave M7040

 

[KennyV]

Like Dave M7040 said...
Also when you park that blade (or any cylinder) leave the rod Inside the cylinder, in that particular blade it would be angled to the left...

 

[NEPA guy]

Dave, Thanks for the info and the you tube link, I'll watch it now and try to pick up as much as I can.

Kenny, thanks for the info on how to park the cylinders properly. I had no idea.

This is my first tractor, and I'm learning the hard way. I'm a bit over cautious when it comes to this tractor, it's been nothing but a disappointment since day one. I've tried a a few minor repairs in the past and they blew up in my face...

I was able to pull the cylinder out by hand without taking anything else apart. I don't see where the snap ring would go. I guess I would need a new one anyways, mine seems bent.

I took a few pictures. The orange and black seals seem intact. It looks rusty and I cleaned everything out with a lint free cloth. The last picture worried me, it appears as if one of the grooves is torn. Not sure if I should attempt a repair if the cylinder is compromised. Please advise.

 

[Dave M7040]

This photo shows the damaged snap ring groove.

If the dealer wont warranty it and I don't think he will, Get a price for a new one but don't buy it now.
Take the cylinder to a hydraulic repair place.
They fix cylinders all the time and can likely come up with a fix for yours especially if you tell them you can live with a slightly shorter stroke so they can cut a new groove for the snap ring.

The front plows I have seen all come with a cross over relief valve as shown in the next photos.

Their purpose is to deal with the end of the blade running into something and then there is a high pressure spike in the hydraulic system to be managed.
Does you plow have anything like these.

Ignore my note at the bottom of the first image.

Dave M7040

 

[Dave M7040]

To remove the cylinder see marked up photo.

I cannot see the other end but it is likely on the same way

Dave M7040

 

[NEPA guy]

Thanks for your help Dave. I just have the one cylinder on this model, there is no crossover relief valve. I wonder if thats why the cylinder broke. Too much pressure from hitting the grass? It happened once or twice this year. If they don't warranty it, I'll take off the cylinder and bring it to a hydraulic repair shop.

What do you think about the milky color of the hydro fluid? As cap mentioned at the beginning of the thread, water in the oil. It doesn't seem to make sense if the hydro fluid gets recirculated throughout the entire system, how is it that it leaked out milky at first from the cylinder. I warmed it up for a while, took it for a ride about 1/4 of a mile, backed it up in the garage and then turned the blade right and left. Does it get caught somewhere? Especially that I swapped out the hydro fluid twice already...I don't get it. Why did it break? Water in the hydro fluid, pressure spike in the system? Poor design/material?

 

[Dave M7040]

I am thinking even with one cylinder double acting, the cross over valve could allow fluid to move from one side of the cylinder to the other when you strike something.

As I understand your use, you are often swapping a snow blower for the blade and each time this happens you have to disconnect and reconnect two hydraulic lines.

before parking it back in the garage, I usually turn the blade to the right and then back to the left before straightening it and resting it on the floor.
This time it wouldn't turn to the left. I upped the rpms to 2000 and tried turning it to the left again, and that's when I saw it start to leak. I lost almost gallon of fluid. I'm lucky in the respect that it happened in my garage and not while clearing the road.


Quick couplings can be very difficult to seat properly. Some owners with loaders have a very hard time because as the FEL settles a little after it is off the tractor, the pressure in the hydraulic lines on the loader build up a bit and getting the quick connects to fully seat is impossible. Some owners use a wooden dowel and a hammer to bash open the end of the coupler to allow a small amount of oil to escape after they get the end of the coupler open for a fraction of a second. Some resort to unscrewing the coupler from the hose so a bit of fluid comes out and then they can seat the coupler.

In my opinion you failed to have the cylinder retract coupler fully seated.

The milky fluid is likely just air from being sprayed out of the end of the cylinder as the cylinder end came off.

What do you do before removing the hydraulic lines and swapping implements. Are you doing this swap with the tractor running?

You should stop the engine once the implement is where you want to leave it. Move the control lever(s) back and forth to allow any built up pressure to escape and then disconnect the couplers

Move to the next implement, stop the engine, move the control levers again to bleed off any pressure in the hydraulic valve, then connect the next implement which, when you last parked it, you bled off its pressure. The couplers should connect easily and fully.

Probably no one taught you the importance of bleeding off the hose and valve pressures.

Dave M7040