B2710 w/Backhoe?

[Anonymous Poster]

I'm considering a backhoe for my B2710. I've read a few posts (elsewhere) that say there are unacceptable levels of stress put on a tractor using a backhoe attachement. Anyone care to comment on:
1) Is the 2710 suitable for a backhoe attachement?
2) Has anyone had problems using a backhoe with a light tractor?

 

[ronjhall]

Clemwood
Around Southeastern Michigan and Northern Ohio many dealers offer backhoes for the 27-2910-model tractor. The <font color=orange>Kubota </font color=orange> 4690 or Woods 7500 work very well without problems. Here is a thread on Backhoes for 27-2910 tractors.

 

[hayden]

I use a Kubota 4690A backhoe on a 2910 (identical to the 2710 except for motor size). It's fully supported, warranted, and backed by Kubota. I've done a lot of digging without issue.

Personally I think there's a lot of fear of the dark on this topic.

 

[MChalkley]

Hayden - Your point that the 4690 is supported and warranted for use on the B2710 is a good one. In fact, it's the only way I'd use that style of backhoe. Both tractors I've seen broken in half (a JD and a Kubota) were using third party backhoes and in one case, at least, I would say it was inappropriately sized. Nevertheless, a broken tractor is just that, so the description "fear of the dark" would perhaps be better reserved for less likely scenarios.

I'm probably the one on this board who has most often advocated caution with the use of three-point-hitch mount backhoes. But please remember that I've never suggested that they shouldn't be used at all, just that they should be chosen and used with caution. That caution would certainly include the caveat that they be correctly sized for the tractor, and that they be approved for use with that tractor by its manufacturer.

The Bradco 609 backhoe I installed on my L4310 was considerably bigger than what Kubota approves without a subframe. Being a nut, I didn't want anything any smaller, so a subframe mounted backhoe was my only safe option. The same goes for anybody else looking at buying a backhoe attachment for a tractor: If you buy a three-point-hitch mount one, make sure it's approved by the manufacturer of the tractor, because the stakes are too high to not play it safe on this one.

MarkC

 

[hayden]

I agree that it's easy to put way too big a 3PH hoe on way too small a tractor. In that case, one should be afraid of the light and the dark.

The position I've taken in a number of threads on this topic is that a 3PH hoe is just fine provided it's on a properly rigged tractor. I had also assumed it would not be an oversized hoe but I don't think I ever stated that. The B series, which is the series I'm most familiar with, support 3PH hoes (not just Kubota's) as long as the tractor is properly equipped. On the 1700, 2100, and 2400 this meant adding a heavy duty top link bracket, and a set of braces that run from the outer rear axle housings to the loader frame. The loader is also a required item. Combined they provide the necessary frame strength for those particular tractors. Kubota also recommends us of their taller ROPS bar so you don't wack your head on the bar when seated in the BH seat - something I discovered the hard way. On the 2710 and 2910 the underside pair of braces is standard equipment so you just need to add the heavy duty top link bracket. The folding ROPS bar also provides extra height for anti-head-wacking measures.

At the same time, I've got nothing against frame mounts in principal, although the woods frame mount in particular I do not care for for a number of reasons. I primarily want to debunk the blanket myth that frame mounts are better than 3PH mounts. As a blanket statement it's just not true. In specific cases, and for specific uses, one of the two will usually bubble to the top. For me, with a 2910, the 3PH mount was clearly the way to go, mostly because the woods alternative dad several unacceptable attributes for me. I'm dreaming of a grand L some day, and that dream includes a Bradco (either 609 or 511) with a frame mount. To me the bradco frame has all the advantages of a frame mount and none of the disadvantages of the Woods frame mount, so it's a real easy pick.

I'm gald Bradco doesn't offer a frame mount for the 2910. I didn't even know about Bradco when I got my 4690 and I know that if Bradco did have a frame mount hoe for my 2910 that I'd be wishing I had one now.

 

[MChalkley]

Ok, now I understand where you're coming from. I don't consider the backhoe you're using a true straight 3PH mount, because you do have a subframe. That's my whole point. The whole reason Kubota requires the loader and those braces from the rear axle housing to the loader subframe is to keep the backhoe from breaking the tractor in half.

When I say extreme caution is required with 3PH backhoes, I'm talking about the kind you just hook up to the 3PH or the sidelink mount points, maybe throw in a different top link, and you're done. Without the subframe between the rear axle housing and the loader subframe, if you bounce the tractor a bit too hard a few times, it's toast. I've seen it, and it ain't pretty. Or cheap to fix.

MarkC

 

[John_Mc]

Would you care to share some of your likes and dislikes about Woods vs. Bradco (vs. others?) backhoes/subframe mounts ?

I'm debating the purchase of a BH for my NH TC33D (I know, wrong forum...) It sounds as though you've researched &/or experienced a lot in this area. I'd appreciate some tips on what to look for.

 

[hayden]

Sure. The issues I have with the Woods frame mount for the Kubota B and L series tractors are:

1) It makes the BH/frame assembly too big when removed from the tractor. The BH is probably 4'-5' long when removed and the frame adds another 4'-5' of length. This makes storage a real nusance if you are tight on space.

2) To attach the frame you need to remove the 3PH draw bars, lift links. It's not a huge deal, but it's more work.

3) The woods subframe is not compatible with a mid mount mower dues to a bracket that gets bolted to the tractor's underside. This one didn't matter to me since I don't have a MMM.

4) The Woods frame causes the BH to hang further out the back of the tractor. This moves the weight center further back than necessary and lightens up the front of the tractor more than necessary. A 2710/2910 will be light in the front end with a hoe and this makes it worse. The overhang also makes getting on and off a trailer problematic without dragging the BH on the ground.

5) The Woods frame hangs down under the tractor and noticably reduces ground clearance.

In favor of the woods is a good solid mounting of the BH to the tractor with little to no slop or play between the two. The 3PH BH tends to wiggle around

The Kubota 3PH backhoes mount tighter to the rear of the tractor for a more forward center of gravity and better approach angle for trailer loading/unloading. There is no stuff hanging under the tractor to reduce ground clearance, and it's compatible with a MMM.

I found mounting the 3PH BH easier than the woods, but I also had the advantage of practice with the 3PH so it's not a fair comparison. Once you have practice they are probably about the same, but keep in mind that you have to take the 3PH apart first for the woods.

I haven't used a Bradco but have looked at them and there are some good pictures on this site. The frame gets permanently bolted to the tractor and from what I gather does not interfere with anything. The BH mounts to the frame and is a nice tight fit close to the rear of the tractor. The frame doesn't hang down under the tractor either and I'm told the 3PH doesn't need to be disassembled to mount the hoe. Assuming this is all true, and I have every reason to believe it is true, then the Bradco has none of the problems that the Woods does, yet provides a solid, no slop mount. Sounds great to me, except they don't make a frame kit for the B series. Oh well.

As for damage to your tractor, I trust Kubota's engineering. If they say they support using a 3PH BH provided the tractor is equipped a certain way, then I believe it. It's unfortunate that extra brackets etc are required because it adds to the confusion on this topic. In my opinion this is a classic marketing blunder. When a customer asks a simple question like "can I use a 3PH BH on your tractor's 3PH?", the answer should be simply "Yes!", not a long drawn out explanation about adding the this and adding the that. If they just included the heavy duty top link bracket on all tractors this would be much simpler, at least for the B and L series.

Hope this helps. You can also search for backhoes and read all the past debates on this topic.

Also, there are many people on TBN who have the woods frame mounted hoes who love them, so don't dismiss them outright. They are very good hoes. Just be aware of the tradeoffs when choosing what's best for you.

 

[hayden]

By the way, the pictures reciently posted of a bradco where on a NH (don't know which model) If your dealer is any good they can help you, but I'd suggest calling Woods and Bradco directly to hear their side of the story. Bradco is now owned by Attachment Technology Incorporated (ATI)

 

[mswanson]

Re: TC33D w/Backhoe?

I think if you have a New Holland boomer you should definately take a look at the New Holland backhoes. I am running the NH 757 backhoe on my TC33D and find it to be quite capable. It mounts with a sub frame that has only 3 points of attachment. The 2 pins up front and a square bracket in the back that the sub frame slides into when mounting. The hydrolics are plumbed right into the tractor. The flow seems more than adequate. The New Holland subframe backhoe as far as I know is one of the only ones that allow the three point hitch arms to remain on the tractor. So basically you just drive away from the backhoe and you are good to go with a rear implement. Also if there ever was a problem because the backhoe is from New Holland you won't have any warranty issues or finger pointing. The only possible negative I can see with this set up is that a mid mount mower is not really an option (unless you want to remove the sub frame brackets each time). This is fine for me becuase I use a rear mount mower and use the boomer for open field mowing and do my mowing around the house with my gravely rider. Good luck with your decision.