B21 Starting Problem

   / B21 Starting Problem #1  

PaulK

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2003
Messages
35
Location
Northern NJ
Tractor
B21 TLB
I've had a minor but annoying problem with starting my B21. About 5 times over the past 200 hours I had difficulty in getting the speed control pedal to return to neutral. You turn the ignition key, everyting lights up like normal but nothing happens when you try to start the engine. Usually the remedy is to tap the pedal - either forward or reverse - and the pedal returns to neutral position and the engine will start when you try the process again. Last week, try as a may, I couldn't coax the engine to respond. A day and a rain storm later, she fired right up. My working theory is that when I stopped the machine for a rest, the machine was on a slight downhill angle and impeded from rolling by the bucket [and gremlins]. This somehow inhibited the neutral position. For the record, I tried all of the remedies sugested by the Operators Manual but had no success. a]I tried putting on the parking break. b] I made sure that the PTO gear shift lever was off. c] I tried with the gear shift lever in neural and first gear. Nothing helped. The next day everything was fine.
Any suggestions in solving the mystery?
 
   / B21 Starting Problem #2  
Paul, I'm not sure waht you mean by pedal since neutral is arrived at by a shift selector on the left fender of the B21.
Occasionally if it is parked on a hill you may have this trouble or if oyu shift while tractor is still rolling just secuer the brake and apply pressure to the Hydro pedal either foward or backward. If that doesn't work just uncouple the linkage from the shift selector and that will free the gear.
Now c'mon don't you love that B21?
John
 
   / B21 Starting Problem
  • Thread Starter
#3  
Thanks for the input. Your comments about the hill/rolling add to my suspicion that this is the problem.
Kubota's take on this is found on p.15 of the Operator's Manual. I'd guess that requirement #1 "make sure the parking brake is set" is intended to inhibit any slight movement of the machine. For the record, I did everything by the book, everything that I could think of, and I was still unsuccessful in 20 attempts over a 6 hour period. It was clearly something subtile because it started the next day. Since it was on a slight downgrade with the bucket resting on a dirt pile a few inches above level grade, I assume that the machine was creeping downhill at a snail's pace. The machine presumably settled overnight and hence started the next day. However, I don't see why setting the parking brake, putting the range shift in neutral, and tapping the speed control pedal didn't do the trick. [By the way, the "speed control pedal" is Kubota's terminology. The Low, Medium and High gear shift positions are "ranges" and one increases the speed within the range by pressing the pedal further. That's my reading of their terminology.]
Back to the problem. I can see the logic in this "failsafe" starting procedure. If you had a gear engaged and speed control pedal depressed half way, you could lurch forward and do damage. A "neutral position" [again, Kubota's terminology] where there is no pressure on the pedal going forward or reverse is a vital safety measure. That's why my first inclinatioin was to look for a piece of mud inhibiting the free movement of the reverse/forward pedals. I also thought that dirt might have inhibited the clutch contact. Everything was clean.
So, the starting "problem" is still a mystery. That's why "imperceptible movement" is only a slightly more valid hypothesis than "gremlins" and "Jupiter's gravitational pull".
I do indeed love my B21. My back loves the pallet forks. All the research of the buying process was paid back in the satisfaction that it was the right machine for my needs. I don't know of too many purchases with that type of happy ending.
However, since I configured the machine with an ATI "Bobtach" bucket and bought 250 lb. pallet forks from Northern, I'd like another 5 HP and Mark Chalkey's Earthforce turning radius. My guess is that someone is building that machine right now.
Thanks for the help.
Paul.
 
   / B21 Starting Problem #4  
Paul,
I had read your post and never having had that problem with my B21 just could not think of anything that might help. After some thought if I were to make a guess I would look at both the safety cut out switch on the range selector and the clutch as well as the wiring associated with them. I can not quite understand why it would not work one day and did the next. This starts me thinking that the wiring is grounding itself out when damp or the switch itself is.

Hope you get the mystery solved and I also have enjoyed the B21.

MarkV
 
   / B21 Starting Problem #5  
Paul, My apologies I misundestood your original post and thought you were referring to the gear selector. That I have had a problem shifting with if I try to change "ranges" on a hill. Anyway, I'm glad you mentioned your quick attach from ATI. I'm considering buying one for my B21. How do you like yours? Is there any advice, comments ideas you would give me. I too am looking for the versatility of the quick change over. BTW if you don't mind I'd like to know what you payed for the quick attach. Thanks
John
 
   / B21 Starting Problem
  • Thread Starter
#6  
Thanks to everyone for their help with the starting gremlins. Mark, my first thought was that there was an electrical problem but I ruled it out [perhaps incorrectly] when all 3 ignition lights came on [the two lights that come on when you turn the key and the center glow plug light].
Regarding the ATI bucket with a bolt on cutting edge, I love it. The only negative is the price - which I don't know. [Let's all have a Zen moment with that statement. No, I'm not related to Yogi Berra.] I purchased my B21 in 2001 without a bucket. My dealer, Messick's [a stone's throw from ATI], is a major distributor for ATI and their buckets. The quick attach on the B21 plus the ATI bucket were only $100-150 more than the stock Kubota bucket. And, the bucket design is better than the stock Kubota. It was a no brainer. However [back to the Zen] if you purchase a single ATI implement, they are a bit expensive. For example, ATI's pallet forks have a strong point for B21 owners because they are only 200 lbs. But, they were $760. For $500 plus $70 shipping, Northern delivered 250 lb./2000 capacity pallet forks to my doorstep. I'm guessing that you'll have to pay a premium for the ATI bucket. It's worth the extra couple hundred dollars for the quality design and light weight. If memory serves me correctly, the quick-attach plus the ATI bucket were 25 lbs less than the stock Kubota bucket. In conversation with ATI, they are very aware of the approx 800 lb material capacity of the B21 bucket. Since they seemed very proud of their re-design of the pallet forks and reduction of 40 lbs in weight, I wouldn't be surprised if they found a way to upgrade their B21 bucket.
Hope this info helps.
Paul.
 
   / B21 Starting Problem #7  
Paul,
I don't believe that just because the dash lights come on that it eliminates a problem with the safety switches. You would be able to see this by turning the key without pushing in the clutch. Everything will light but the tractor will not start.

I still suspect that one of the safety cut out switches is where your problem is. The good news is that it would be an easy fix if necessary.

MarkV
 
   / B21 Starting Problem
  • Thread Starter
#8  
Mark,
You prompted me to search my shop manual and locate the safety cut-out switchs. I'll see if I can find the short with my seldom-used test equipment. Thanks.
Paul.
 

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