B1700 Front Axle Venting

[Argosy]

Tried this earlier and was advised to try it again with the model in the title so here goes.

When I got this the front axle leaked badly. Changed all the seals and O rings, leaks are gone, but I am still losing lube. I think it is because the axle pressurizes while operating, I can't find a vent looking at the axle or in the parts break down.

If you have/had a B1700 did it lose front axle lube?

I was also linked to a JD thread where people had made vents. That may be my next step.

 

[repete]

My L2550DT had no vent in the front axle as well. I drilled out my fill plug so that I could tap it with a 1/4-20 hole. I then threaded in a 1/4" hose barb fitting. Onto that I ran a 1/4" fuel line hose into the engine compartment and then through a fuel filter that breaths both directions.

I noticed one day that Mason Bees had filled the hole to the filter. After that I just wrapped the filter in a rag.

 

[EE_Bota]

I don't believe it is appropriate to vent the axle. Doing so will allow too much water to condense into the axle over time. Also, that pressure would surely challenge a leaky seal, but may act to reinforce a proper seal. A better alternative that would achieve the same thing would be to either:

1)use a dissicating breather to remove the water so a vent can be accomplished without having the water condensation issue.
2)use a balloon or bladder approach such that air expansion can be accomplished using only the same air over and over, therefore providing no new water into the system.

As far as lube getting gone: in most cases you should be able to find the leak and repair it. I repaired mine over Christmas. It leaked again, and I had to do a mini-repair by which I removed the hub part only, cleaned it with acetone, and used a better sealant.

 

[arrabil]

I don't believe it is appropriate to vent the axle. Doing so will allow too much water to condense into the axle over time.

All car axles are vented and most have 100000 mile fluid change intervals. Why aren't they worried about condensation?

 

[art]

The auto axle probably doesn't get submerged in water or mud from time to time! I don't see a problem listed and if there are conditions here that make you question the build.

 

[kuboman]

One thing I do for non vented axles and planetary drives is to get them warm and then vent out the pressure. Doing so helps to relieve any seal pressure plus it tends to create a small vacuum when it cools which also helps in the moisture end of it.:thumbsup:
Just my 2-bits.

 

[arrabil]

The auto axle probably doesn't get submerged in water or mud from time to time!

You must have missed that ee_bota's concern was about condensation, right? But either way, yes lots of people takes their trucks through the mud and probably a billion people have driven in hard rain.

plus it tends to create a small vacuum when it cools

But that puts even more strain on the seals to keep stuff out. Now they have to fight the elements and the vacuum. The whole point of the non-vented axle is to use the pressure build-up to help keep stuff out.

 

[EE_Bota]

All car axles are vented and most have 100000 mile fluid change intervals. Why aren't they worried about condensation?

I am going on vacation, so I won't see TBN for at least 5 days. Trout fishing, camping, and kayaking. So, I won't be able to follow up...

I think you make a good point. I know most gearcases are vented, and I was surprised to see that front axle was not vented. When mine was leaking, I thought seriously about venting it.

The auto manufacturer put the vent in the rear end by design. The tractor manufacturer left it out by design. Venting the axle is a redesign. I am not a better axle engineer than the guy who designed it. It would have cost them very little to put a vent in, had they wanted one there.

When I tore into it at Christmas, what I saw inside made me glad I didn't vent it. There is a bearing is at the very bottom of the vertical part of the axle that would be the likely recipient of any collected water. It is right near the drain plug.

If anyone redesigns the venting system, it might be advisable to redesign the oil change interval as well to make sure that bearing does not fill with water.

It is a lot of work to repair the axle seals, but there is a feeling of satisfaction too, particularly when you get all the oil out that has little bits of metal in it. It's a bit like lapping compound mixed with the oil. You will never get that out of the hub housing just with an oil change. You would never get all the water out of that section either. But, then again, you won't have any water there if the axle is not vented.

I changed the hydro oil at Christmas as well. I took the fill cap off the other day, and when I looked at the underside of the cap, there were water droplets on it. It's a bit alarming how quickly water gets into vented cases.
New oil, 4 months old, and the tractor was used at least 15 hours in that time, and at least 6 hours box-blading two days before.

 

[arrabil]

what I saw inside made me glad I didn't vent it.

See, I think that is the exact reason TO vent the axle. The seals are under too much pressure. They aren't strong enough to handle the internal and external pressures for extended periods of time. I'll know soon enough though as I vented my axle.

I am not a better axle engineer than the guy who designed it.

I am not a better axle engineer either. But I know enough about it to make an educated guess as to what my needs are versus their all-purpose design.

 

[kuboman]

I'll step in here again. I have had many more problems with non vented axles/hubs from leaks than vented. If you want to run your own experiment get your axle (non vented) good and warm and then remove the fill plug slowly. You will get a rush of air from the axle. All this pressure is not a good thing for the seals hence the increased frequency of leaks and seal failures. Planetary hubs of course cannot be vented and that is why it has become common practice in the mechanical world to vent the pressure once a year to prevent seal leakage.