Another Unnecessary Tractor Death

[JDNineNinety]

I live in the small town of Hernando, Mississippi. We had a
florist-landscaper (74 years old) who was hogging on an old
International tractor with no ROPS. He was hogging on an
incline and it rolled and killed him. How many times have
we all heard this? If you don't have ROPS on your tractor
go to your local welder and have one made for it. It very
well may save your life. ALSO get some seatbelts fitted.

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( If you don't have ROPS on your tractor
go to your local welder and have one made for it )</font>

As good as that sounds.. it is actually bad advice.

A non-certified rops would give you a false sense of security.. and might actually lead you to do something unsafe.

A welder or fabricator at best would probably make a set of 'roll'bars.. not a rops or fops structure.. which have been engineered and designed, and certified/listed with UL to perform to a certain spec. Besides.. if a welder made it and sold it.. you could sue him if it didn't operate correctly in many cases.

Better advice is to traverse slopes up and down.. not side to side..

Soundguy

 

[KiotiJohn]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( A non-certified rops would give you a false sense of security.. and might actually lead you to do something unsafe.
)</font>
I totally agree with you Chris. ROPS are designed especially for the tractor on which it is installed, with very particular stress points etc. A mere roll bar is about all a welder would put on, and there's no telling how it would hold up in a rollover. Imagine being belted in, thinking the roll over would work, but it doesn't, and you're strapped in while the tractor rolls over and crushes you. Quite possible without a certified ROPS. John

 

[Alan L.]

I'd say if there is no such thing as a certified roll bar for the old tractor, then have one made that should do the trick. It might save your life, but don't trust your life with it. You shouldn't be too careless with a store-bought ROPS, nor should you be careless with no ROPS, but something designed by a good welder with what should be enough strength to survive a roll is a lot better than nothing, in my opinion. And seatbelts are must too of course.

We're not jumping out of airplanes with makeshift parachutes here, nobody plans to roll their tractor.

 

[Bird]

I agree, Alan.

 

[Junkman]

John..... I believe that we will have to differ on this one. A competent welder would know how to build a roll over protection device that would be as good as any factory built one, but wouldn't have the same certification for obvious reasons. I have a friend that builds and races midget cars. He builds all his own frames and cages. I have seen his cars after he has rolled one and every time, he has come out of it unscathed. The only time that I can remember him getting hurt was when another car threw a piece off of the rear tire and it hit him in the shoulder. All of his cars are made of 1 1/2" & 2" steel tubing. I wouldn't call them pretty, but they sure are safe.

 

[Soundguy]

No offense to the people that think you can tack a cage to a tractor that was not designed for it.. but you are forgetting one BIG issue... the tractor itself. Even if the roll bar can handle the roll/load.. the suports it is bolted to may not be able to.

On most setups.. the rear axle trumpets are the mounting point for the rops.. Not all old tractors had rops in mind.. some did. Thos that didn't may have the welded up rops work fine.. but have the tractor break along an axle trumpet as it was not designed for that side load.

For instance.. the for N series, though supplied with no rops, did have backwards support for it on the axle trumpet, and there are certified rops available for fords back thru 1939.

Other tractors.. for instance .. like some of the cubs have pretty wimpy axle trumpets... It would be a gamble to see whether the axle trumpet would hold the side load.

I've seen grey market tractors that also use a plate around the rear casting, above the pto as a mount point for a rops.. I've seen that same setup with the rear cover torn off on a roll as well... I would bet the operator didn't experience much protection in that situation.. especially if he was seatbelted in. Course.. all the mechanic had to do was toss a new rear cover on.. wash the blood off the seat, and sell it again? right?

I can't speak for everywhere.. but around here.. if you walk into any big welding shop and ask for rops / rollbar.. etc.. most of them don't want the laibility. I guess you could get a back yard welder to do it.. but I would want to see his homeowners umbrella limit before I paid him...

Either get a certified rops and seatbelt and use them.. or don't.. but be safe and aware in both cases, and you will stand a better chance.

Soundguy

 

[GerardC]

Something is better than nothing.

I believe that a FABRICATOR is what is needed in an after market ROPS installation. There is a BIG difference between the two.

web page

 

[OkeeDon]

I have to come down on the side of the fabricators, here. Obviously, if you take your tractor to the local guy who considers welding up some lawn furniture to be fabricating, you're probably not going to be safe if he builds a roll bar.

But, as Junkman mentioned, every area has someone who builds roll cages for race cars. Frankly, I look at the ROPS protection on my tractor and burst out laughing, compared to the roll cages we've had in our race cars.

Any competent cage builder is going to look at the structure of the tractor and, if he can't find something solid enough for a mount, will start whereever it is solid, and fabricate from there.

I also have to come down on the side of "something is better than nothing." It has been suggested that this is a mistake, because a faulty design might inspire false confidence. All I can say is, anyone who gains enough confidence from their factory-designed, "certified" ROPS to ignore the danger is even dumber than the guy with no ROPS at all.

 

[Junkman]

Amen Brother..... well stated...... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[JerryG]

Don is right in all counts. Any good fabricator will find a solid point to start. He won't just stick it to a fender. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif And even with a factory ROPS, one has to try to avoid a roll.

 

[RonR]

I'm not sure of the difference between fabricators and welders, but most of the guys I work with, when asked to build something, will overengineer it significantly. Since they aren't making it for production and trying to cheapen it up, it is usually build WAY heavier than it needs.

Best wishes,
ron

 

[Taylortractornut]

Im with Okee Don and JunkMan on this one. Ive made several rops for tractorsfrom Cubs all the way up to H and M Farmalls. I alwas make a nice sub frame on the ones I can get strongenough mounts on. I always mock up from the top of the bar to the top of the engine block to providet protection. We had one built at a shop a few years ago for a 4000 Ford at work, our new helper got it under a huge brand and it made the tractor stand up before he clutched it. I have seen some good example of both types of roll bars/rops and learned new things from most of them.

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blueclass=small">( I alwas make a nice sub frame on the ones I can get strongenough mounts on )</font>

That's exactly my point... the tractor itself was obviously not strong enough, as it was.. and a subframe was needed.

At what point is a job 'too much'. Cubs go for 1000 agerage runner to 2500 minty restored and great runner.

At what point do you decide that the 200$ subframe and rops is the wrong direction to go on your 1500$ roadside mower?

Keep in mind I'm also looking from an employers standpoint here. According to osha.. I can't let an employee on a tractor without an 'approved' rops. If I retrofitted a roll bar.. I'm quite sure that I, and my company, and the fabricators company would be the defendent in the wrongfull death suit.. even if the rops functioned as designed, and it was 100% operator error.. even down to something stupid like not wearing a seatbelt.. etc.

Another tractor sub i'm on, there is a person discussing something similar.. a wrongfull death suit over an old tractor ( 50 + years old ). No matter who was at fault in reality.. when it comes down to it.. the lawyers are going to make somebody pony up money...

This is also akin to modifying factory rops. For instance.. reading the flyspec print in my NH owners manual.. if you modify the factory supplied rops.. you are pretty much waiving any claim for loss due to an accident. Things like drilling and cutting the rops were specifically mentioned.

I would hate to be the fool that actually had a defective rops fail, and die.. but my family couldn't sue due the the fact that I had to add a light to my rops by drilling it, and giving the company a 'free pass' rather than using the dozer other ways to mount the light that might not have voided the warranty. All in all.. it's the lawyers and product liability laws that drive the safety standards.. not an overwhelming desire to keep people safe..

Personally.. I think that if people 'stupid' themselves to death.. they are helping the gene pool by weeding themselves out... I knw that seems harsh.. but I'm tired of seeing labels on my peanut butter that says 'may contain peanuts! ' .. ( YES i have a jar i bought the other day that states this on the back.. )

Soundguy

 

[ByronBob]

Nobody gets on a tractor with the idea of flipping it over. I don't feel anymore comfortable with my ROPS to do stupid things. But if I was on an older tractor and the opportunity was available to try and put something like a ROPS on it then why not? The odds of survival should increase and I'm still not going to flip it over on purpose.