Advice for a Newbie Clearing 120 Acres of Cutover

[Manbearpig]

First, I want to say thanks to all of you guys for the assistance so far. I've been lurking in here for a while and just reading as much as I can. I really appreciate you guys sharing your experience and advice.

Second, my situation: I bought about 120 acres of land that used to be a farm (and I'd like to return it to that), but had been abandoned for about 40 years. It turned into quite a forest and selling the timber rights was what enabled me to make the purchase and not eat romen noodles every meal for the next 20 years. That was a good thing. However, the final product left by the timber guys is far from what I'd hoped for:



The front 10 acres (first three pictures) is a disaster, including those two large piles that were never chipped or ground. The rest looks like the last two pictures. Not ideal, but not the worst... I probably couldn't have expected much better.

What I'd love to do is remove all stumps (at least level with the ground, but preferably deeper) and not lose the topsoil. I've asked around a lot and I've gotten some consistent advice: hire someone to mulch it. I've also spoken with the guy that everyone says is the best, cheapest, most efficient, and one of only two guys in the area that can do it (he has a Tigercat with FAE mulcher). The problem is that I can't afford to hire that guy because it'd be $900-$1300/acre. I have a good amount of money, but definitely not $120k-$150k.

What I'm now thinking (and what I'd like help/advice with) is to buy a CAT 299D XHP and a Fecon DCR to mulch it all on my own (and potentially the new Fecon Stumpex tool to mulch stumps even deeper into the ground). I figure once I'm done with my land, I can start up a land clearing business too given that the guys I talked to were all so busy that they wouldn't be able to start on my land for at least 3-4 months. So there's a lot of demand out there and I should know what I'm doing after working on my own place for a while. I don't have experience with skid steers, but I have family with a large timber business and my dad has run heavy equipment since he way a kid so I wouldn't be completely on my own.

So my questions would be:
1. Based on the pictures, is it feasible to mulch everything on my land with a CAT 299d and Fecon mulcher? What about those slash piles?
2. Is it reasonable to think that I could do it cheaper myself, assuming I get a good deal on the equipment and either start a business afterward or sell the equipment on?
3. Does anyone know anything about the Fecon Stumpex? It seems like a great idea to me, but it's also not on the market yet and I can't find anything on the internet about it except for Fecon's marketing material. I called Fecon and they said it'd be out in January, would cost around $22k, and they could probably get a demo for me.

 

[fishfactor]

It can be done with the 299/fecon. It will take a LONG time to do 120 acres with 1 small machine. The piles will need to be unstacked before you can mulch them. They look pretty high, so you may need to rent an excavator to unstack them. Be sure to do the math. Figure 1 acre/day to make it right. You will burn 4 - 4.5 gallons of fuel per hour. So basically 100 - 120 8 hour days. Don't forget teeth, repairs, and service. Add it all up and figure your time for taking off work for that long (unless retired) and you will probably come out better letting the contractor take care of it.

 

[tonyoz]

So my questions would be:
1. Based on the pictures, is it feasible to mulch everything on my land with a CAT 299d and Fecon mulcher? What about those slash piles?
2. Is it reasonable to think that I could do it cheaper myself, assuming I get a good deal on the equipment and either start a business afterward or sell the equipment on?
3. Does anyone know anything about the Fecon Stumpex? It seems like a great idea to me, but it's also not on the market yet and I can't find anything on the internet about it except for Fecon's marketing material. I called Fecon and they said it'd be out in January, would cost around $22k, and they could probably get a demo for me.

So my answers are
1.With a CTL with a grapple those heaps can be pulled apart so you can mulch them and stack any oversized timber.
2.It could be cheaper to do the job yourself IF you are an experienced operator and have realy good mechanical skills. If not then contract the job out. IMO it best to divide your land into parcels and complete them as you go and that's including sowing grass, fencing, drainage, etc. Depending on your finances mulching the total area in one hit takes funds away from everything else that needs doing.
3. IMO stumpgrinding is a great idea but first you have to decide on what your land will be used for, ie grazing or cropping. For grazing stumps only need to ground 4" below ground level but if you change your mind after the grinding is done I recon I'll hear you swearing from here. For cropping stumps only need to cut down just below cultivation depth.
4. ROW Mulcher swears by the Super Trak 140. It's still a CTL but with a whole lot more grunt.

 

[Manbearpig]

Fish,

Thanks for your reply. I was hoping to get a reply from you since you seem to have similar equipment to what I want, seem to have a ton of experience, and you're pretty close geographically.

Here is what I was using to figure out my cost per hour:
$28.33 Depreciation ($85k/3k hour life)
$15 Fuel (4.0gph @ $3.75)
$5 Tracks
$7 Teeth
$3 Insurance/Maintenance
------------------------------------
$58.33 Total/hour

6 hours per acre

$58.33 * 6 = $349.98/acre

This would total $41,297.64 for the 708 hours that it should take me. Am I way off? It just seems like I’d still come out way ahead even if I’m underestimating the time that it’d take me.

 

[fishfactor]

Fish,

Thanks for your reply. I was hoping to get a reply from you since you seem to have similar equipment to what I want, seem to have a ton of experience, and you're pretty close geographically.

Here is what I was using to figure out my cost per hour:
$28.33 Depreciation ($85k/3k hour life)
$15 Fuel (4.0gph @ $3.75)
$5 Tracks
$7 Teeth
$3 Insurance/Maintenance
------------------------------------
$58.33 Total/hour

6 hours per acre

$58.33 * 6 = $349.98/acre

This would total $41,297.64 for the 708 hours that it should take me. Am I way off? It just seems like I壇 still come out way ahead even if I知 underestimating the time that it壇 take me.

Not too far off. Your purchase price will be more like $115-$120 for a 299 and fecon. You will need more maintenance cost... service every 250 hrs with average cost at dealer of $800. You will be close to needing tracks before it's over. You will need to replace the quick couplers at least once. Often a 10 cent oring blows and you loose $200 worth of hydraulic oil. Don't forget the chance of major repairs. Make sure you have good insurance, these machines do catch on fire. What about your time? 700 hours is a lot of time you could spend doing something else, like planting grass behind the contractor. Not trying to discourage you, but there are a lot of things to consider.

 

[ALittleDirtWontHurt]

Not too far off. Your purchase price will be more like $115-$120 for a 299 and fecon. You will need more maintenance cost... service every 250 hrs with average cost at dealer of $800. You will be close to needing tracks before it's over. You will need to replace the quick couplers at least once. Often a 10 cent oring blows and you loose $200 worth of hydraulic oil. Don't forget the chance of major repairs. Make sure you have good insurance, these machines do catch on fire. What about your time? 700 hours is a lot of time you could spend doing something else, like planting grass behind the contractor. Not trying to discourage you, but there are a lot of things to consider.

I'll second that. We run every day and it's probably a lot closer to $100/hr in expenses.

 

[Hill Farmer]

I'm thinking an excavator to pile it and a match to light the piles.

 

[Manbearpig]

I didn't mean my purchase price would be $85k. I meant that I assumed the machine would lose $85k in value over 3k hours of use. When I divide that into a per hour value, it's $28.33/hour. If I use it for 3k hours and can sell it for more then that's great, but it shouldn't depreciate any more than $85k. I see used 299d XHPs listed for $50k-$70k without an attachment so I think $85k/3k is reasonable.

Good to know about the service costs. That does bump up my cost estimate, but only by $1.50/hour.

I know it's a lot of time and a lot of hard work, but it's worth saving the money. Even if I decide to replant pine on 30-40 acres to save some time and money, it still seems best to buy a machine and do it all myself. Even if I assume $900/acre for a contractor, which is cheap, then I'm saving close to $500-550/acre by doing it myself. If I can do an acre in 6 hours then that's like paying myself $83-$92/hour to do the work. I'll take it.

Additionally, I still have hope that I can start a business with all of this afterwards. I've been looking to start up something so that I'm not forever a slave to my day job in an office. This seems like a good opportunity for me to get something going. Would any of you guys disagree with that? I'm not looking to become a millionaire with it, but some additional income would be great.

 

[Manbearpig]

So my answers are
1.With a CTL with a grapple those heaps can be pulled apart so you can mulch them and stack any oversized timber.
2.It could be cheaper to do the job yourself IF you are an experienced operator and have realy good mechanical skills. If not then contract the job out. IMO it best to divide your land into parcels and complete them as you go and that's including sowing grass, fencing, drainage, etc. Depending on your finances mulching the total area in one hit takes funds away from everything else that needs doing.
3. IMO stumpgrinding is a great idea but first you have to decide on what your land will be used for, ie grazing or cropping. For grazing stumps only need to ground 4" below ground level but if you change your mind after the grinding is done I recon I'll hear you swearing from here. For cropping stumps only need to cut down just below cultivation depth.
4. ROW Mulcher swears by the Super Trak 140. It's still a CTL but with a whole lot more grunt.

Thanks for the advice, tony!

I do plan on doing things in sections. I'm also hoping to build a house out there in the next couple of years so that has to factor in too. Plus, here in the States we can take advantage of some incentive programs for farmers in the way of fencing, digging wells, and replanting trees. I just have to figure out what to do first and how to qualify for those incentive programs. It's a lot more stuff to get done than I ever imagined before I bought the land.

I do want to have mostly cattle on the land. Maybe some horses in the future. That's why I'd like to grind the stumps a little deeper into the ground than typical mulching would allow me to.

 

[blueriver]

Maybe a dozer ... Push into piles and burn .. Push out the stumps .. Last thing rake the ground level ... If you grind the stumps even 6" below the surface they may give u problems if u decide to use any tillage equipment .. Buy a used one and sell it when your done.