5P+ Welding Question

[Rockyroad]

This is a question for Wroughnharv, or anyone else who knows the answer: I read harv's post on 5P+ and I just got around to picking up a 10-lb can on my lunch hour. Does about 80 amps sound about right for 3/16 to 1/4 inch plate?

Also, something I have recently read about 7014 and 6013 rods being "contact" rods meaning that you drag the end of the rod along with NO gap as opposed to the gap for the arc with a regular rod. Is this true?

 

[rf33]

Rocky,

I have been welding all of my pipe fence using 5P+, and with a wall thickness of 3/16, I have been using around 80 amps as well. Remember to make sure that your welder is set to DC when you are using 5P+. I do not know much about either 6013 or 7014 rods. One of the best sites for info on different welding rods is the Lincoln Electric Web Site <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/consumableseries.asp?browse=104|2030|&isolocale=EN> here </A>. They have pretty good info on just about all types of welding rod. Happy Welding.

 

[gmason]

Rocky, I have not heard this in my welding class about the 7014 rod. We use the 6010 rod for stiching "dirty" metal. The gap your refuring to is called the arc length and in general should be about the length of the diameter of your rod.

Long arcing is when the arc length is too long and you get a poor weld(porosity is one problem).

The 7014 rod will leave a lot of slag and will deposit a lot of metal to the base metal. So if you looking to build up a weld that would be one to use.

Harv can address his techniques in running a bead with the 7014, 6013. But as long as you get good penitration and no flaws, then technique is personal choice in my opinion.

gary

 

[Rockyroad]

Thanks for the replies. With the 6010 (5P+) I will use DC+.

The stuff I was reading about 7014 and 6013 being "contact" rods did sound a little strange.

I have a Lincoln "Tombstone" AC/DC, and so far I like it a lot. I like the DC+ since the arc seems a lot "smoother" than AC. I am just learning about welding and I am practicing on a lot of scrap learning how to control the rod, arc, puddle, etc. It all looks so easy when someone else is doing it.

One thing that has helped me as a beginning welder is the new Optrel helmet I just picked up locally on sale. Now I can see exactly where I am striking my arc. I had a real problem with the old helmet before. By the time I put the helmet down, my hand with the rod may have moved an inch or more and the arc when I struck it was nowhere near where I intended. The Optrel is really a good rig.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

The eighty amps sounds about right. I hardly ever look at the setting. I strike an arc and then adjust. And to be honest the two machines I use the most, Trailblazer on the truck and the Dialarc in the shop, are usually set and I only occasionally adjust them.

If I'm too hot I move faster. If it's too cold then I adjust.

I've always heard 6013 and 7014 referred to as "mud" rods. When I want a real pretty pass and it's a horizontal I will use one of these rods. I've found that it's almost a drag motion with the rod almost touching the material.

In my case I often have to go back to the fact that the best weldors are the automatic machines. Like cutting welding is all about speed of travel and heat. So when something isn't doing the way I want it I sit down with myself and try to figure out which or both I'm screwing up and what I should do to correct it.

Unless you're doing something like trying to weld aluminum with stainless rod or such the problem is always heat and speed of travel.

Accepting that has been probably the best lesson I've learned. It makes life simpler. Simpler is good. Well, most of the time.

What I like best about 5P+ is it's workability. I like that it cuts in and yet not like a blowtorch. The puddle just seems to behave for me. I guess it likes me. And just as importantly, unlike 6011 or 5P, the flux comes off real easy like.

Another thing to keep in mind from my experience with welding is it's a lot like driving. You get smoother as you learn to operate further ahead of where you're actually at.

I'm sure that just like in driving it's about faith in what you're doing. That you just know that what's happening behind you is finer'n frog hair just because it always has been that way before.

Last week as I was welding up some dog kennel panels for a local pound I found myself fascinated how the welding worked.

I was welding galvanized one and three eighths pipe with a wall thickness of about ninety thousands. The joints were coped but they didn't fit real tight. So in some places I'd have gaps of three sixteenths of an inch. As I'd come along with the puddle my heart would stop when I hit the big gaps. But it seemed almost every time the momentum of the puddle would catch the sides and a quick back and forward with it would fill and I'd be past it.

I've watched over the shoulder of folks I've been teaching to weld. Probably the most common mistake I've seen is they move too fast. When you do that the puddle isn't a puddle. It's molten metal here and there in spots. There's this point in time with the puddle where it's like taffy that wants to stick to everything. As you're welding you are keeping the puddle in this sticky molten state. You're pushing and pulling as required to cut and fill as you go. You can't do this when the rod is going two hundred miles an hour back and forth and up and down.

I hope this helps.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

What you have there, Rock, is the "ol field" welding rod. The good pipe welders from the "ol patch" all used 5P for years and years. I welded a lot of pipeline m'self with 5P. What we'd do is use a small chunk of PVC pipe inside the rod pouch to act as a separator and have both 1/8" and 5/32" rod with us down in the hole or up on the platform as the case may be. We would CHANGE RODS instead of having to crawl up outa the hole and change the machine. The regular "ol patch" guys would use the 5/32" for the stringer pass. then go to 1/8" for the hot pass, then back to 5/32" for the cover pass. 80 AMPs sounds about right, although as Harv says....we never touched the machine once we had it cooking like we wanted it to. The thing about 5P is that it is a good POSITION rod......goes overhead real nice. For SOME REASON, those pipes seem to all have a bottom to them, and that separates the men from the boys......welding up that bottom; heh heh heh....

 

[Rockyroad]

Thanks for the replies. I get to burn some of those 5P+ rods tonight after work. Can't wait to see how they work. I know what Harv means about being fascinated with the puddle of molten metal. I have been fooling around with scrap just playing with the puddle - moving it this way and that, moving the rod closer, further away, etc and observing the results.

Yes- all those pipes do have a bottom, and maybe sometime I'll try an overhead weld. Right now, though, I'm just concentrating on easy stuff and trying to get my beads looking right. Of course, the big fear I have of overhead welding is all of that molten steel falling down and burning holes thru me. Think I'll learn more about the basics before I try that.

One thing that has helped a little is that I just picked up a torch set. I bought a video about torch welding, and I play around with that too. Learning how to get the puddle of hot metal going and using the filler rod has halped me become more aware of the puddle with an arc welder and just what is happening with the whole welding process. Seems to put a lot more heat into the surrounding metal than arc does. But it is still fun to play with.

I know what Harv means about heat and speed - you would have laughed if you were watching me try my first cut with the cutting torch on a piece of plate. Went thru here, didn't go thru there and so on. End of the plate had these globs of metal hanging off. But it got a little better the more I practiced and got the hang of what speed I should be moving the torch at.

I don't do this for a living (good thing), but I am sure having fun learning the basics. Some more practice, then I will attempt to start fabricating some fun toys for my tractor. Again, thanks for the help!

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Rock-e-road.....when you pick up that torch to cut something, remember this: What you have there is an OXYGEN LANCE. You don't heat up the metal and blow it out of the way.....you slice it with pure oxygen. Once your cut is started I could sneak up behind you and valve off the acetylene, and (Theoretically), the cut would continue. Most rookies have too much gas and not enough oxy to make good cuts. Make it LEAN as you possibly can. run about 40 and 8 for cutting normal thicknesses....jack up the oxy for thicker pieces....like inch and a half on up. Welding you want LESS oxy and a richer gas flame. 13 and 33 is a good place to set the regulators to start with. Overhead welding requires leathers for protection. The WORST burn I ever got was when I had just a minor thing to weld and it was too much trouble to reach for my leather sleeves. YOW!

 

[Rockyroad]

Dave-

Thanks for the advice. I think I am trying to melt my way thru the plate. I will try it again this weekend. That answers my questin as to how you could possibly heat a plate say 4 inches thick to melting point all the way thru in order to make a cut with the torch. I have been adjusting my torch about like you say with relation to oxygen vs. acetlyene, but I think I have been waiting too long at the start of the cut thinking I have to have the steel red hot all the way thru. Maybe that is why I am getting big globs of red hot metal. Also, a couple of times the molten metal filled back in following the cut, so (as Harv says) either I have too much heat or I am going too slow. I will keep practicing. Thanks for the help - I appreciate it.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Here is another tip, Rock-On Roadway; it is sometimes necessary to slant your cutting tip in the direction of travel and slice slightly ahead when cutting thin stuff. When the tip is on an angle it thinks the metal is thicker and it cuts better. It won't be long before you will be a "Rembrandt" with a torch it just takes some practive and the right technique. Who knows, you may someday come upon the scene of an accident and find the driver is pinned inside the cab of his wrecked service truck and nobody there knows how to use the torch that is mounted on the truck, and the "Jaws Of Life" that the fire dept has are at a different wreck far away and it becomes necessary for YOU to step up and surgically torchcut the crushed and wadded up body material away without putting even a hint of heat onto to the already-hurt victim. THAT's where you'll be with your torch skills in a year, maybe two.