LS MT125 Loader/Backhoe John Deere Sabre Lawn tractor w/Snow Blade
I just inherited a very nice '58 Ford 800 with the five speed and live PTO option. The tractor has a loader on it that works fine and everything seems to work well except the 3 point hitch. In close inspection of this tractor it appears there are three big plugs on top of the transmission, what I would call the "pump case" and then the differential. The middle unit has a fluid dip stick and with it all the way in it's just touching oil at the bottom. In looking closer at all this the transmission has a level plug on the side that you would fill with 90w gear oil to that level. The differential has the same level plug that you would fill to with 90W but that middle case has a dip stick. So here is my question. What kind of oil would go in this "middle case"? Also the dipstick has two levels on it. The lower one is marked "oil level" and the upper one is marked dipstick tube opening. I'm guessing that you would fill that case with oil and instead of the normal way of checking fluid levels with a dip stick you would "short stick" this case to the top of the dipstick tube opening????? Now I have ordered a shop manual and parts manual and owners manual and I'm sure all that will be covered in that material but for now I'm just asking for advice from others that may have an Ford 800.
As always thanks for your help and advice.
Lisa
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/ '58 Ford 800 Transmission oil level requirements
Kubota B2650HSDC, 1955 Ford 860 with Sherman Napco 4WD, 1958 Ford 841 with Elenco 4WD, 1959 Ford 641
For the hydraulic fluid, New Holland 134D or equivalent is the modern recommended fluid. Some folks, myself included, use the same 134D fluid in the transmission, rear differential, and hydraulic reservoir since the seals between the chambers may not seal as well as when new and the fluid may intermix between them. Attached are a few pages from the owners manual to tide you over until you receive the ones you ordered. Also note the picture of the hydraulic pump which is on the right rear of the engine. The hex plug at the front of the pump can be used to bleed air from the hydraulic system which may be why the three point is not working. Check the oil level on the hydraulic dipstick on the left side of the tractor behind the left running board and add oil to hyd reservoir at cap #10 if needed. Pull the coil wire, loosen the hex plug on hydraulic pump, and crank the engine over until oil without air bubbles is flowing out. Tighten the hex plug and recheck the oil level. Your front loader is a Wagner model WF3 and it has its own oil stored in the frame of the loader and is powered from a pump that runs off the front of the engine.
/ '58 Ford 800 Transmission oil level requirements
LS MT125 Loader/Backhoe John Deere Sabre Lawn tractor w/Snow Blade
Well Michford I'm thanking you again. Just found this reply from you. First off thank you for the manual pages. My new manuals are taking the slow boat on UPS across country and I won't see them for a week. I did manage to figure out the bleed plug on the pump and I loosened it enough with the engine running to let it bleed itself and that is how I got the three point to work like new. BUT, this poor tractor has spent it's entire life outside and apparently while there was no oil on the dipstick and I refilled it with fresh garden variety "tractor hydraulic fluid" there must have been water in the bottom of the case. I bled the system completely for it to work but now I have the "usual" cream colored oil that is a good indication of a nice mixture of water in it. So now I have to drain that entire system and flush it out. But at least it works and I know how to service it.
Again thank you so much for your time and sharing your knowledge with me to make me a more knowledgeable Ford tractor owner. The tractor is basically retired like me and I'm just into preserving and showing it but I so appreciate your help and it's fun to own my first big/real tractor. My LS MT125 is fun and a very good working real tractor but his Ford 800 is truly a big hard working machine.
I so appreciate your help and your time.
Best regards,
Lisa
/ '58 Ford 800 Transmission oil level requirements
Kubota B2650HSDC, 1955 Ford 860 with Sherman Napco 4WD, 1958 Ford 841 with Elenco 4WD, 1959 Ford 641
Glad you got the three point working, bummer that you have to drain and refill. Just curious, how did you determine that your Ford is a 1958? Based on your pictures, your tractor appears to have been built between 1955 and 1957. There is a flat horizontal area above and behind the starter that will have two rows of numbers stamped in. One will be a 3 digit number and will either be 850 or 860 based on what I'm seeing. The second number will be a 5 or 6 digit number and is the serial number that can be used to determine the year. Might be fun to see the numbers with layers of paint and the loader in the way. Here is a link to Yesterdays Tractors and serial numbers for Ford tractors.Antique Tractor Serial Numbers - Yesterday's Tractors
Also as a preventative measure, blocking your clutch pedal down will keep the clutch from sticking to the flywheel if the tractor is not used everyday.
/ '58 Ford 800 Transmission oil level requirements
LS MT125 Loader/Backhoe John Deere Sabre Lawn tractor w/Snow Blade
Well Michford you have a very decerning eye! The old gentleman that gave me the tractor said it was a '58 but just yesterday I took a flap disk and polished off that number area. I did find 860 which I assumed to mean it was a '58 model built in '57 with the last digit being a zero. But looking at my material again and with your question it's making me look at this differently. So the honest answer right now is I don't know what year it is.
But looking at the link you sent me if it had a serial number starting with a 1 it would be a '54. But then in '55 the numbering started with an 10 and was five digits long. Then in 1956 the numbering started with 77 and again five digits long. But in '58 the numbering started with an 11 and had SIX digits. I went through all that to say that the serial number is illegible. But I can see the little special mark at the front and the rear of the serial number but the first four numbers are obliterated but the last two are 22. But if I go out there today I believe I can estimate the number of positions and it looks kind of long enough it could be a '1957. So I think you nailed it and more then likely it's a 1957 and NOT a 1958 as I was lead to believe. So thank you for that education and I'm learning more about my big tractor every day.
Now back to the contaminated hydraulic oil. I intend to dump that out today and start over but any suggestions on how to flush out the system? Could you look in the book and tell me the capacity of the hydraulic system and what it takes on a dry fill? I could maybe put half of the dry fill in and run the machine for awhile and dump that too. But I certainly made a mess but then again there was no indication or water as there was nothing on the stick and when I looked through the fill hole everything was nice and shiny with no indication of rust. But I have to solve this problem and soon now.
Thanks again for your help, suggestions and education. I certainly appreciate it.
Lisa
/ '58 Ford 800 Transmission oil level requirements
Kubota B2650HSDC, 1955 Ford 860 with Sherman Napco 4WD, 1958 Ford 841 with Elenco 4WD, 1959 Ford 641
Not really a discerning eye, the fenders and grille are different between the 55-57 800 series and the 58-62 801 series so it stands out once you have seen both and note the differences. At least the previous owner was right about it being an 860 as it does indeed have live PTO and is more desireable compared to an 850 which does not have live PTO. The 8 in 860 means 800 series and the 6 in 860 means live PTO. The serial number is the way to determine the year of mfg. As to the contaminated hyd oil, the bulk of the oil will be in the reservoir that you drain so I would not worry about trying to flush the system. Run the tractor to warm the hyd oil, then drain and refill. Bleed the system and run it again to warm the oil and help evaporate the remaining moisture in the oil. The reservoir holds 9 qts per the owners manual. Pictures of an 860 and an 861 for reference.
/ '58 Ford 800 Transmission oil level requirements
LS MT125 Loader/Backhoe John Deere Sabre Lawn tractor w/Snow Blade
Thanks Michford for helping me figure out what I actually have with this big tractor.
A couple years ago I bought a Gibson basket case and had to do some repair work, find some parts and get it back together. It turns out that was a very rare tractor as it had the "big" 9hp engine and the truck 4 speed transmission. But it was a little tractor and gave me some standing in the tractor club I used to belong too. Then I bought a brand new sub compact LS tractor with a loader and backhoe. I've had a lot of fun with that one and now I have this BIG tractor and it's way cool. I now have a real tractor.
Interesting the difference in the years and the appearances of the little things to make a different year model. It's raining pretty hard here today so now work outside for me on the new tractor.
Good advice on the draining the contaminated oil. I'll get that garbage out of there and start over. Now this tractor is at least covered to keep the rain off of it.
Thanks again for all your help. I so appreciate it and I'll report back here when I get the job done with a report on how it went.
