looking at buying a 4720 or 5030 mostly leaning towards the deer, what would be the best option to put on anbo root grapple on the quick attach loader, talked with the factory and the dealer and JD does not offer the third valve on the joystick. JD factory also offers an oil cooler, i feel this would have to be for the hydrostat, would you also recommend the wheel weights and alchol filled tires. I will be doing alot of brush work, yard work and dirt work, Thanks Chase Remember you either make dust or make dust, so get busy and makes some
4720 w/cab purchase
- Thread starter Chase
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Deere_parts
Silver Member
While I can't make a recommendation on the tractor I would use "Rim Guard" http://www.rimguard.biz/ in the tires instead of alcohol. It's not corrosive, not flamable good to -35F and environmentally freindly if you cut a tire clearing brush or maintaining the yard.
Rim Guard is also about 10.7 lbs per gallon and alcohol is about 7.8 lbs per gallon. That is a difference of about 250 lbs in a 13.6-28 tire on the rear of the 4720 and 70 lbs on the 8-16 tires on the front if you fill them too.
Rim gaurd could add a total up to about 1170 lbs on the 4720 (920 rear and 250 front)
Alcohol could add a total of up to 850 lbs on the 4720 (670 rear 180 front)
Hope this helps, Take what you want and leave the rest. Good luck with your decision.
Rim Guard is also about 10.7 lbs per gallon and alcohol is about 7.8 lbs per gallon. That is a difference of about 250 lbs in a 13.6-28 tire on the rear of the 4720 and 70 lbs on the 8-16 tires on the front if you fill them too.
Rim gaurd could add a total up to about 1170 lbs on the 4720 (920 rear and 250 front)
Alcohol could add a total of up to 850 lbs on the 4720 (670 rear 180 front)
Hope this helps, Take what you want and leave the rest. Good luck with your decision.
Deere_parts
Silver Member
Thank you for the kind remarks. And a merry X-mas right back at you.
I'm not a fan of steel weights at all. I think the look cool but I would worry about the risk of snapping an axle or something else doing alot of loader work back and forth.
The liquid ballast moves inside the tire and wont deliver the shock or twisting to the driveline like a steel weight would when changing directions quickly when operating hard and fast like some do (or some knuclehead you hire to drive a tractor for you will if you are running a landscaping business...etc...).
Here's a couple of experiments you can do. Pick up a brick or softball with one hand and a cement block or bowling ball with the other......Now hold both arms straight out and see which one fatigues first....Now that your arms are a little stressed start rotating them 360 degrees and you will notice which one is easier to rotate....Now try to do a sudden stop and reverse direction and be careful not to put your shoulder out of joint with the bowling ball.
Weight and size of tires is one of the reasons these guys that put the big tires on their pickup trucks are always fixing U-Joints and broken axles.
I'm no expert on these tractors and am sure others could really add to this discussion on weights for your application but this is my opinion. I'd personally rather hook up a ballast box just when needed for heavy work and just liquid fill the tires for light work and stability.
All the best to you and yours over the holidays and for many years to come. Mike /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
I'm not a fan of steel weights at all. I think the look cool but I would worry about the risk of snapping an axle or something else doing alot of loader work back and forth.
The liquid ballast moves inside the tire and wont deliver the shock or twisting to the driveline like a steel weight would when changing directions quickly when operating hard and fast like some do (or some knuclehead you hire to drive a tractor for you will if you are running a landscaping business...etc...).
Here's a couple of experiments you can do. Pick up a brick or softball with one hand and a cement block or bowling ball with the other......Now hold both arms straight out and see which one fatigues first....Now that your arms are a little stressed start rotating them 360 degrees and you will notice which one is easier to rotate....Now try to do a sudden stop and reverse direction and be careful not to put your shoulder out of joint with the bowling ball.
Weight and size of tires is one of the reasons these guys that put the big tires on their pickup trucks are always fixing U-Joints and broken axles.
I'm no expert on these tractors and am sure others could really add to this discussion on weights for your application but this is my opinion. I'd personally rather hook up a ballast box just when needed for heavy work and just liquid fill the tires for light work and stability.
All the best to you and yours over the holidays and for many years to come. Mike /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
cowboydoc
Super Member
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I don't think steel weights are an issue. It's not the same as big wheels and tires on a pickup. The reason the u-joints go out is because of the increased angles on the drivelines. We have tractors with 20,000 hours on them that have had loaded tires and weights their whole life and never had to replace an axle.
A ballast box gives weight out the backend and is great for when you need counterbalance weight. For doing fieldwork and general needed extra weight the wheel weights or loaded tires are the way to go. If you are in the field much the loaded tires and/or wheel weights will decrease the bounce of a tractor significantly. The wheel weights are designed with a true center of gravity. Their torsion on the axles is negligible at best.
A ballast box gives weight out the backend and is great for when you need counterbalance weight. For doing fieldwork and general needed extra weight the wheel weights or loaded tires are the way to go. If you are in the field much the loaded tires and/or wheel weights will decrease the bounce of a tractor significantly. The wheel weights are designed with a true center of gravity. Their torsion on the axles is negligible at best.
Deere_parts
Silver Member
cowboydoc
Yep I forgot about the driveline angles too on trucks but I have seen alot of broken axle shafts and twisted off driveshafts including a few of my own trophys. Also considering that a pickup or jeep axle wasn't designed for 40" tires from the factory like a tractor is designed for weight makes sense.
Curious if you or somebody else would teach me/us a little about the true center of gravity designed into the steel weights and how it lessens the impact on the tractors or point me to an article so I can read up on it. Always ready to learn something new and dispell a myth or concern I have about something.
Personally I wouldn't be concerned about steel weight in the field, planting or tilling, but I would be concerned if doing alot of loader work where some people just slam a tractor from forward to reverse all day to work as fast as they can often bringing the tires off the ground because of the abuse. (I'm guilty as charged on a front loader in Iraq building temporary fortifications to a fuel site).
My way of thinking and concern is that metal fatigues as it gets older and fails even faster when abused. Sooner or later it won't take it anymore. To me I would think steel weights could hasten the damage when a tractor is abused like some do, where the liquid would lessen the impact to the entire driveline.
Thank you.
Yep I forgot about the driveline angles too on trucks but I have seen alot of broken axle shafts and twisted off driveshafts including a few of my own trophys. Also considering that a pickup or jeep axle wasn't designed for 40" tires from the factory like a tractor is designed for weight makes sense.
Curious if you or somebody else would teach me/us a little about the true center of gravity designed into the steel weights and how it lessens the impact on the tractors or point me to an article so I can read up on it. Always ready to learn something new and dispell a myth or concern I have about something.
Personally I wouldn't be concerned about steel weight in the field, planting or tilling, but I would be concerned if doing alot of loader work where some people just slam a tractor from forward to reverse all day to work as fast as they can often bringing the tires off the ground because of the abuse. (I'm guilty as charged on a front loader in Iraq building temporary fortifications to a fuel site).
My way of thinking and concern is that metal fatigues as it gets older and fails even faster when abused. Sooner or later it won't take it anymore. To me I would think steel weights could hasten the damage when a tractor is abused like some do, where the liquid would lessen the impact to the entire driveline.
Thank you.
cowboydoc
Super Member
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Deere does the calculations on what the max lbs. that an axle can take with regard to wheel weights. If you look a the wheel weights they are designed to stack on each other in an interlocking position so there is no slippage or turning. They are anchored to the original wheel with bolts. Also if you notice you don't add front weight to the wheels it's added to the nose. In the deere manuals it states how much you need to use to maintain your center of gravity. Tractors are made with the understanding that weight is probably going to be added to the rear wheels and to the front end. Most of your better tractors come equipped to add weight. It's almost a given that most tractors are going to have weight added to the tires.
I'm not sure what research articles you are looking for. In the farming industry it's kind of like asking for proof that a motor runs. Wheel weights, fluid in the tires, and ballasts are just part of what makes a tractor. There's nothing special about it. As far as wearing out early like I said I have never seen it.
I'm not sure what research articles you are looking for. In the farming industry it's kind of like asking for proof that a motor runs. Wheel weights, fluid in the tires, and ballasts are just part of what makes a tractor. There's nothing special about it. As far as wearing out early like I said I have never seen it.
daTeacha
Veteran Member
This general topic has come up before, although not quite in this guise.
What we're talking about here is what I call the "dumbell effect" -- no offense to anyone involved in these discussions.
Imagine a 5' long weightlifting bar. Pick it up. Pirouette like a ballerina. Now put two 25 lb weights on that bar, but in the center. Pirouette again, and you won't see much difference from the first time. Now move those weights out to the ends of the bar and pirouette a third time. You'll find it harder to start spinning and also harder to stop once you get started. This is rotational inertia.
Wheel weights will increase the rotational inertia of the wheels much more than liquid in the tires unless you are really moving at a pretty good clip since the liquid will tend to stay in the bottom portion of the tire and the weights must spin with the wheel.
Both will increase the inertia of the tractor with respect to rotating about the longitudinal (front to back) axis-- also known as roll. Weight on the ends of the axles will resist the start of a roll, but once a roll is started, it will also tend to keep it going.
Similarly, the inertia about the vertical axis is impacted by mass hung outside the wheelbase on the ends of the machine. If this motion is parallel to the ground, it is known as yaw -- skidding in car parlance. If it's perpendicular to the ground, it's known as pitch. A tractor with all the weight in the middle will pitch, yaw, or roll easily. It will also stop that motion easily, like a mid-engine sports car. The more weight we put at the outside edges of the machine, the more we decrease the tendency to change the way it is moving in any of the three directions -- it's harder to start the motion but also harder to stop it once it is started.
So, getting to the comment about the steel weights, I agree. They will increase the rotational inertia of the axle. However, I also think the comments about tractors being designed with full knowledge and expectation of the use of weights in mind. In general, tractors being used in their intended and designed manner will benefit from the increased inertia that comes from adding mass at the sides and ends, which really means greater stability. Just don't overdo it. The manufacturers have recommendations for weight added, either front, back, or wheels.
I imagine that like most things mechanical, these recommendations are probably less than half the amount needed to cause failure in the components during pre-manufacture testing, but that doesn't mean they can be blithely ignored. The sudden stresses induced by unseen obstacles can multiply the effect of the extra weight and cause components to fail.
As a wise man once said," Moderation is a good thing, unless you get too much of it." /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
What we're talking about here is what I call the "dumbell effect" -- no offense to anyone involved in these discussions.
Imagine a 5' long weightlifting bar. Pick it up. Pirouette like a ballerina. Now put two 25 lb weights on that bar, but in the center. Pirouette again, and you won't see much difference from the first time. Now move those weights out to the ends of the bar and pirouette a third time. You'll find it harder to start spinning and also harder to stop once you get started. This is rotational inertia.
Wheel weights will increase the rotational inertia of the wheels much more than liquid in the tires unless you are really moving at a pretty good clip since the liquid will tend to stay in the bottom portion of the tire and the weights must spin with the wheel.
Both will increase the inertia of the tractor with respect to rotating about the longitudinal (front to back) axis-- also known as roll. Weight on the ends of the axles will resist the start of a roll, but once a roll is started, it will also tend to keep it going.
Similarly, the inertia about the vertical axis is impacted by mass hung outside the wheelbase on the ends of the machine. If this motion is parallel to the ground, it is known as yaw -- skidding in car parlance. If it's perpendicular to the ground, it's known as pitch. A tractor with all the weight in the middle will pitch, yaw, or roll easily. It will also stop that motion easily, like a mid-engine sports car. The more weight we put at the outside edges of the machine, the more we decrease the tendency to change the way it is moving in any of the three directions -- it's harder to start the motion but also harder to stop it once it is started.
So, getting to the comment about the steel weights, I agree. They will increase the rotational inertia of the axle. However, I also think the comments about tractors being designed with full knowledge and expectation of the use of weights in mind. In general, tractors being used in their intended and designed manner will benefit from the increased inertia that comes from adding mass at the sides and ends, which really means greater stability. Just don't overdo it. The manufacturers have recommendations for weight added, either front, back, or wheels.
I imagine that like most things mechanical, these recommendations are probably less than half the amount needed to cause failure in the components during pre-manufacture testing, but that doesn't mean they can be blithely ignored. The sudden stresses induced by unseen obstacles can multiply the effect of the extra weight and cause components to fail.
As a wise man once said," Moderation is a good thing, unless you get too much of it." /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I feel like the luckiest new guy in the world, having all the long term senior gold member replying. I believe after reading the replies, that I will add the wheel weights and fill the tires and drive my tractor sensible. One cooment I would make is that I would stop the forward or reverse direction of the tires before changing direction, so I dont feel the wheel weights would cause me any issues and the tractor would also ride better, merry xmas, thanks chase
