471 turns over wont start

[Abe460]

Hello everyone,

I have a 2004 MF 471 tier 2 that isn't starting. I have read a lot on the issue and started with the fuel solenoid since this has been an intermittent issue. It starts runs fine then won't start next day. It usually starts again after touching and checking every electrical connection I can find. Probably just coincidence that it starts again.

So, after some reading I checked voltage at the fuel solenoid when turning the key on and turning over. I've got nothing. So I traced wires to what appears to be (from agcopartsbooks.com) the oil pressure sensor. I have voltage going in but none going out. Then I pulled these wires and did an amp draw, it appears to be pulling 2.6 amps and no start either. This solenoid only has one wire going to it so I just assume it is grounded to the injector pump. There is another connection between the two (which I assume is for the pump) and I have continuity between all three connections.

I'm just curious if I'm on the right track since I am assuming an awful lot and I know where that can go. Also why would this solenoid be dependent on oil pressure at startup?

I've had the tractor for about 7 years. I have come to the conclusion it was in a flood in Mississippi. There is too much paint in places on the engine that really shouldn't have paint. Also the electronics have mostly all failed. No gauges work correctly even after replacing sending components.

I apologize for too much info, but I'd like to be as up front about the issue as possible.

Thanks for reading
Abe.

 

[Harry in Ky]

I wonder if you're checking the right solenoid? Some of those emissionized pumps have two solenoids. One is the actual shutoff and the other is for timing advance. The pumps I'm thinking of will have the shutoff wire on top, in a spot that's often difficult to see, let alone reach. The timing unit is always right in plain sight and easy to access. Each will have only one wire. Maybe your pump is totally different. Either way, if you have no signal to your solenoid, then add a jumper wire to battery and see what happens. If your problem is signal related, it should then start and run until you remove the jumper wire.

 

[Abe460]

Hello Harry thanks for the reply

I also questioned the solenoid being the correct one. By looking at the breakdown of the injector pump agcopartsbooks.com they only list this solenoid as "solenoid". That doesn't tell me much, but I assumed this was the correct one by looking at other forums. There is another connection on that wire previously to this one that I cannot find in any of the breakdowns. Neither of these connections have power so I guess it could be multiple issues caused by the lack of voltage.

Honestly I had thought about giving it power from a battery to see if it would run. I am a little shy of doing so as not to cause more damage. Also figured that the solenoid itself may not be functioning. Do you think it would cause any damage to disconnect the current wire and provide the solenoid power just to see if it activates?

 

[Harry in Ky]

Can't see how it can hurt anything. I'm sure this is just a 12volt system. It may be controlled by relays, switches,etc. but still 12volt. When it comes to powershift, power shuttle, and other modulated computer controlled systems, you can't trust that, but this is not that type system. If you apply 12v to the coil, it should turn the fuel on. If so, the engine should start. Then you can trace circuits as needed.

 

[Abe460]

Thank you Harry.

I'll try that tomorrow. I wanted to really badly today, but wasn't sure if other damage could occur. It'll have to rest tonight.

I couldn't find any relays for that purpose or very many others for that matter in the parts lists. Seems to be fairly basic for electronics unless I'm missing something. As far a I can tell the key switch would activate the solenoid right off without having any relay. I could be wrong, but that could be traced later. There shouldn't be any computer controlled functions in this thing. If there is I'm selling it. I've built and serviced my fair share of them and sure don't want one in my tractor. I know its a different breed, just saying.

Thanks for the advice
Abe

 

[Harry in Ky]

I agree fully. There should be no tricks with this system. Just switches and wires, maybe a fuse. Nothing complex. 12 volts to the pump coil, and it should start.

 

[Abe460]

Well, yesterday I determined that the solenoid engages or at lest makes a click when applying voltage. I had previously cranked on an already low battery so I didn't have the amps to turn over the starter. Charged it for the night.

Today I got home from work and the tractor started right up. Typical of what it has been doing for quite a while now. At least it wasn't out in the back pasture where I was nervous about someone stumbling on to it sitting there. I'll have to hope it happens again when I have the time to investigate further. Technically it's not broken right now.

I appreciate the advice. I'm not anywhere close to comfortable with Diesel engines so some advice really helps.

 

[buickanddeere]

Thought at first it was a two stroke Detroit diesel

 

[Abe460]

Humor lost on me. Doubt detroits ever went into Massey though.

 

[buickanddeere]

Humor lost on me. Doubt detroits ever went into Massey though.

The 4-71 Detroit Diesel was rather popular. There was a Massey 98 in the early 1960's iirc that was 3-71 two stroke powered. With the proper setup they would make 125HP at 2300rpm all day and hardly smoke.