425 vs 1430, weight issues

[bbabineau]

I am still a very confused person trying to decide on a tractor. I'm pretty well sold on the PT because of the many things that it can do that I find will require some exotic combination of large and expensive implements of green, blue, orange or other such as ballast for FEL work and front weights when mowing with a rear mower or some combination of front weight or a full bucket for BH use. It always seems to gravitate around weight.

No one ever seems to mention weight with the PT although I hear some comments about the weight of the 425 vs 1430 and whether or not it is a good thing. It would appear from the weight comments in the other forums that the more the better. Is this also true with PT for FEL and mower work? I realize the weight of the 1430 allows for the 50% increase of FEL capacity but does the added weight also allow for better slope mowing? Is the weight per HP a disadvantage for he 1430 or does the Pump output offset the HP question? Does the wider stance of the 1430 perform better on 12 to 14 % slopes or does the lighter 425 have better agility?

I am leaning toward the 1430 for the better lift capacity but don't want to sacrifice the hill requirements for mowing.

It seems that other forums posts are always adding weight to wheels - do PT users do the same? Would the heavier 1430 provide some of what a blue or green user is adding for ballast?

Why does this have to be so hard? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

I'll take a shot at it, but you're likely to get differing opinions.
You are right that weight is a big issue with standard farm tractors. Filled rear tires and rear wheel weights are common, and the tractors heavy to begin with, primarily to get maximum traction for pulling heavy loads. PTs do not excell in that arena, but the full-time 4wd makes them reasonably capable.
Most owners will agree that PTs are pretty well designed to lift at or near their ratings, so additional weight isn't necessary.
Whether more weight is an advantage on a hill is debatable. If you are running out of traction, perhaps so, but in my experience with my 1845 with single wheels and Bubenberg's 425, the limits on slope are First: The ability of the engine to oil while tilted, and Second: Power. On steep hills, both can get tuckered out climbing while the mower is soaking up power. On the 1845, I generally get some wheelspin and sideways crab while cross mowing the steepest parts. So, I think, will a 425 or 1430. No PT is prone to rollover, although if you work at it, you can make it happen. It takes a pile or a hole or a high load, and arguably a bit more than a little operator error.
As I have said many times here, I think the limits on a sane operator's pucker factor are well below any PT's slope limits. If you really have to go on stuff in the 30 degree neighborhood, you need the duals on an 1845 or 1850, but 30 degrees is seriously steep! (12-14% slopes are only 7-8 degrees, but are steep for roads.) I tend to leave hills that steep to nature, even though with duals my 1845 is rated to 40 degrees.
The bigger PT you get, the more mower you can swing, but as you noted, the smaller ones are more agile. My 1845 has a 72" rough-cut mower and I tow a 60" Acrease wing mower for pastures. It's a bit clumsy for the lawn. The 425 does great lawn work, but will be slower in big area mowing. The 1430 is in between but lifts the same as the slope mowers. For bucket work, wheelbarrow replacement, the 1430 has to be great.
It's worth some effort to get test drives, not only at Tazewell, but with owners on the board.
All that being said, I think you'd be pleased with either one you're now considering.

 

[Gravy]

FWIW, we went for the 425 over the 1430 for 2 main reasons:

1 - $$$. This one is pretty obvious. The 425 is the best bang for the buck IF it will do what you need. We got our 425 AND a good selection of implements for the cost of the bare 1430.

2 - Overall dimensions. We use our PT in a lot of tight places. Our property is heavily wooded, rocky, rough, and often steep. Our back yard is very narrow. The extra inches of a 1430 would significantly limit where we could work.

OTOH, while Kermit (our 425) regularly amazes us by extracting and carrying rocks that are *obviously* far too large for such a small machine, there are times when more grunt and lift capacity would be nice.

That said, if your budget can stand it, and your work will be in relatively open areas, you may be better off with a 1430.

The 1430's lift capacity and hydraulic flow are 50% more than the 425's. The extra weight may translate to extra traction and pulling ability. In an uphill drag race, power to weight ratios may determine the winner. In a slow, hard pull, traction and torque are the thing.

Also, while the rated HP difference of 30 versus 25 doesn't seem to justify the price difference, my experience has been that diesel horses pull harder than gasoline horses.

From what I've read here, it seems that the 1430 is rated for steeper slopes than the 425. Part of this seems to be due to differences in the engine designs, and part due to the 1430 maybe having a lower center of gravity.

I know that on side slopes, I pucker long before Kermit does, especially when the wheels are reversed. I'm not sure I could stand to test the limits of a 1430, much less one of the slope mowers.

Another consideration is the cooling issue. Based on the experiences of several 1430 owners, it seems that the oil cooler is prone to clogging with grass chaff. I'm positive that I would not be at all happy to have to clean out the cooler every hour or two to prevent overheating while mowing. If mowing were to be the primary activity, I'd look for another machine (maybe the 1845 or 1850?).

Also, there is the noise factor. 425's are LOUD. I can't stand to operate mine much above idle without earmuffs. From all indications, 1430's are even worse. The problem with the current 425 appears to be mostly due to the "muffler", which was apparently designed to last forever, but not to be quiet. I suspect that quieting the 1430's air-cooled diesel rattle would take more than a better muffler.

I hope these thoughts help clarify your decision. Whichever way you go, I'm betting you'll LOVE your PT!

Gravy /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

<font color="red"> Based on the experiences of several 1430 owners, it seems that the oil cooler is prone to clogging with grass chaff. I'm positive that I would not be at all happy to have to clean out the cooler every hour or two to prevent overheating while mowing. If mowing were to be the primary activity, I'd look for another machine (maybe the 1845 or 1850?). </font>

I'm afraid the 1845 and 1850 aren't the answer to that particular problem. They also are oil cooled, and the cooler has small passages which trap chaff. I have insect screen taped over the expanded metal of the engine compartment, so I can go an hour, or so, before stopping to wipe the circle of chaff off the back, and I blow out the cooler before each day's mowing. (I have a centrifugal filter like those on combines, but haven't yet mounted it, since the screen does OK.)

 

[blackwell]

We are able to do about twice the work with a 1430 vs a 425 in the same time. The 425 is a great machine but the 1430 is the most used machine we have.
EB