4000...4400...4500 questions

alwaysoddball · May 17, 2014

I bought this tractor back in February and now that I have been using it some I have a few questions. First off...the reason I have the title the way I do is I believe it is a mix of the 3 tractors rolled into one. The numbers on the trans say it to be a 4000 with independent PTO. It has the front axle of a 4400, the front nose tank and p/s of a 4500. You can see places of the old yellow paint under the blue.
The questions I have are...
(1) The independent PTO really chatters when you engage it with a brush hog connected. Once it gets spinning it's fine. I have had a posthole auger on it and it didn't do it. Is that normal? The old tractor I had was a live two stage clutch style PTO so I'm not familiar with the independent type.
(2) At higher RPM it seems to have a miss if not under a load. Low PRM or idle I don't notice it. It has the distributer style injector pump not the rail style. I checked the manual and it said it should be timed at 0 degrees, I checked and it is. Could it still be needing some fine tuning or do I have a injector or pump give problems? It starts right up with no problem. Barely cranks before it's running.
I thank you all in advance for any input.

Bigfoot62 · May 18, 2014

Concerning the fuel question, a partially clogged fuel filter can cause those symptoms.

Jerry/MT · May 18, 2014

alwaysoddball said:
I bought this tractor back in February and now that I have been using it some I have a few questions. First off...the reason I have the title the way I do is I believe it is a mix of the 3 tractors rolled into one. The numbers on the trans say it to be a 4000 with independent PTO. It has the front axle of a 4400, the front nose tank and p/s of a 4500. You can see places of the old yellow paint under the blue.
The questions I have are...
(1) The independent PTO really chatters when you engage it with a brush hog connected. Once it gets spinning it's fine. I have had a posthole auger on it and it didn't do it. Is that normal? The old tractor I had was a live two stage clutch style PTO so I'm not familiar with the independent type.
(2) At higher RPM it seems to have a miss if not under a load. Low PRM or idle I don't notice it. It has the distributer style injector pump not the rail style. I checked the manual and it said it should be timed at 0 degrees, I checked and it is. Could it still be needing some fine tuning or do I have a injector or pump give problems? It starts right up with no problem. Barely cranks before it's running.
I thank you all in advance for any input.

Are you sure that "chatter" when you start the hog up with the PTO is not coming from the mower?
I have a Ford 4610 with IPTO and when my mower stops, the blades "tuck under' the stump jumper as the PTO brake stops the shaft. When I start the mower the blades have to move from the tucked under position via centrifugal force, to their running position. As they do this there is some vibration until they fully extend them self. Once in the running position, they run smoothly.

As far as the high rpm miss when not under load, that's a situation where fuel delivery is relatively low compared to the same rpm when you are under load and it doesn't miss. Some carbon on the injector tip, sticking or dirty injector? Just speculation on my part.

trmechapt · May 31, 2014

The 4000 IPTO does not have the ability to feather on. It pretty much locks the clutch right away and will chatter. Just keep the RPMS low when you engauge the PTO. The 4610 series and later redesigned the PTO valve to be able to slowly start the PTO shaft turning. As for the miss, try Seafoam in the fuel and an ounce of engine oil per gallon of fuel. Todays fuel doesn't have enough lube in it for the older pumps. Try moving the pump half a notch or timing mark advanced.

alwaysoddball · May 31, 2014

Thanks for the input. I kind of thought that on the PTO because I knew on the two stage I had, I would ease into it when I started the brush hog. This one it's all at once. On the miss...I have put some cleaner in the fuel but I admit I haven't run it a lot since. Suppose ably the filters had been changed not all that long before I bought the tractor but I know how that can go. I will get some new ones and change them out for good measure and give the cleaner some more time to do it's thing. If that don't solve it then I'll playing with the timing a little and see what that does. Thanks again for the replies.

Soundguy · May 31, 2014

the 4000 IPTO is a hyd valve and clutchpack.

low rpms at engage. valve throw is very small. you MIGHT get some feather engagement. but not much.. nor do you really want much. I have a later 7610s that essentially uses the same type of setup. throw lever to engage hyd clutch pack..e tc... and the manual warns you to use lowest rpm to prevent lugg or stall when pto implement spins up and not to try to slip mor ethan a second or 2.. etc.