3 PH power down trick?

[jmc]

With the inability in some cases to get a post hole digger to penetrate, or to peel up stubborn ice/dirt with a blade, it seems like power down on the 3 PH might be handy. I can see how it could get awkward to use with a back blade as the contour changes but this is just about the mechanical feasibility. Like most ideas under the sun, someone has probably tried it, but just in case, I'll try to describe what I think would work.

Add a heavy bar between the implement ends of the lower links.

Figure out a way to connect both the top link and a hydraulic cylinder to the top link attachment point on the tractor.

Connect the other end of the cylinder to the midpoint of the previously added bar.

Lower the 3 PH lever as far as possible. Extending the cylinder drives the lower links down while the top link and implement orientation follow passively as before.

Lifting the 3 PH requires some coordination though. Either you need to retract the 3 PH lever and cylinder lever simultaneously, or you need a float position on the cylinder control while you lift the 3 PH control.

Does this make sense?

John

 

[OkeeDon]

Now, you've got me thinking. Since there is no power down onthe normal 3-point lift hydraulics. would it hurt anything to ignore it and use your system to both raise and lower? Put the regular 3 point control in full down, then control the actual height of the implement using your system, or, perhaps better yet, a pair of independent cylinders attached to brackets on the tractor and the ends of the 3 point arms. Push down if you need it, and raise the implement with the power down cylinders, and also control tilt by working the power down cylinders independently.

When you want to return to normal operation, pull a couple of pins and disconnect the power down cylinders. You could mount the control sticks for the P-D cylinders like the brake pedals on my TC18 - a flip-off connector would make them work together or allow them to work independently.

Interesting thoughts. I won't have time or facilities to play with it until my barn is built.

 

[rdbrumfield]

The power down idea could be a good one. I agree with not using the 3pt. Just leave it in the down position and use the remote cyl. Putting one cyl in the middle might be a problem with the drive shaft though. You have me thinking about the rear blade. The ability to get some down pressure would be nice at times.

 

[Soundguy]

Some older tractors with no lift have use a retrofit and a dual actig cylinder. i saw one on a farmall H like this. Alos I've seen older retrofit systems that use a small single acting hyd cylinder hooked to the upper lift arms and somewhere on the top casting using a bracket.

Engaging this single acting cylinder while your 3pt is in the down position will put pressure on the upper lift arms.. forcing the implement down.

The system would need a tap to the hyd system, a spool valve and a relief valve. Once the downpressure is 'done', letting the spool valve go back to center would relieve the oil pressure on the cylinder, and then using the 3pt to raise the implement would force the oil back out of the upper cylinder with no restrictions.

Alternately I've seen little tractors.. like cubs and garden tarctors with homeade 3pts.. that used a bottle jack. The jack was situated with the handle at the operators platform.. you just grabbed it and 'jacked' the lift up... you could reverse this, and use it to force the lift down... just remember to release the valve when you are done...

Seems like a bit of work.

Soundguy

 

[keeney]

Wouldn't it be easier to just pile some weight on the auger or blade frame? I think I have even seen pictures of rear blades with a shaft welded on top to hold dumbell plates stacked on top. You could do the same with the hole digger as well.

3-pt down-force on an auger might make sense, but with a rear blade, I would think you would quickly lose traction on the rear wheels.

- Rick

 

[gator]

This was discussed a few years back. Someone pointed out that the reason the TPH has no down pressure is because it would lift the rear wheels off the ground. In the case of my tractor and other 2 wheel drives, this would mean you would go nowhere. A FWD tractor would mean just the fronts would be driving. They also pointed out the implements that need to dig in have angled teeth to dig when being pulled forward.
I could see the use for downward pressure for a post hole digger though since the tractor is stationary.
Just my 2 pennies on the subject.

 

[Soundguy]

I doubt you could feasable put enough weight on an auger to make a difference. Though i have seen 'helper' poles attatched, to be pressed down by another person.

My comments about down pressure were more or less directed at that one use. Down pressure , other than static weights on a box blade or disc would seem to be counter productive. Besides.. a properly adjusted angle of cut on a blade will make it tend to bit deeper anyway.. same as a plow..

Soundguy

 

[keeney]

A cat-1 3ph can lift nearly 1200 pounds - more if its cat-2. It sounds like you could add 800 lbs of down-force if you wanted to just by stacking on 16 50-lb dumbell plates.

I do agree that for the post-hole digger, power-down may be kind of neat because then you don't have a 1200 lb implement to deal with mounting and un-mounting, but from a simplicity point of view, welding on a single, verticle, 1" diameter x 24" long shaft onto the auger frame sounds a lot easier.

I think that anybody standing near enough to the auger to push down on it while it is running is crazy. Those things can tear off limbes and hands pretty easy if it was to snag your shirt or something.

- Rick

 

[Taylortractornut]

JMC it would work great lots of Case Ford/New Holland and MF industrial 2 wheel drive tractors had power down. THey have loaders and a power down 3 point hitch and the box blade. When the wheels get off the ground your usually quicke enough to give it a quick pickup and it wot rut in usually. Ive spent alot of days on a NH 455 landscape loader with a box blade finishing house sites. On a PHD some folks ad a hydraulic cylinder from the top of the yoke to the arm and it prvides enough weight to pick the rear end up in the air. wit the proper blade adjustment with the down pressure you can doo alot of things with a 2 wheel drive. Adding weights to a box blade will help but it will still jump on the gravel roads. I added 800 pouns to the 8 foot blade on the tractor at work and it still jumped up and down. the down pressure makes a more rigid plane for it to ride on and it wont jump around much. I eventually used a come along to hold the blade down to get the road graded.

 

[kensfarm]

I was wondering if you just ran an cable from the FEL under the tractor.. through the towbar w/ clevis.. and up to the PHD. Then raising the FEL up.. would pull the PHD down.. of course you might have to attach some eye-hole guides on the underside.. but it could work.