3 Hole Rocker Use

8N_John · Jan 19, 2005

As you can see from the pic, I don't have a 3 hole rocker on my 8N. I also don't have the welded outside brackets (that welds to housing) that the rocker pins go through on most 8Ns.

What are the benefits of adding a 3 hole rocker (can I just use what I have now for brushhogging, etc)?

Will the lack of the welded brackets for the rocker pins cause problems (not sure why mine doesn't have them)?

beenthere · Jan 19, 2005

You can use what you have.
Not sure what '3 hole' rocker you are making reference to, but having 3 holes to place the top link just varies the effect on the draft (if it is available) and changes the relationship of the top link connection to an attachment in relation to the lift arms of the 3pt.

RalphVa · Jan 19, 2005

That's what my top link connection looks like on my JD 4010. If this spot is exactly vertical from the ends of your draft arms where they connect to the tractor, you DO NOT want the top link any longer than the draft arms. This, by simple geometry, will cause the draft arms to want to jam a bush hog connected via a stiff top link to push the tail wheel into the ground. Solve this by either using a chain for the top link or repositioning the draft arm lift pins on the bush hog. Ran into this problem with the LX4 cutter the way it was delivered to me. Dropped both the hitch pins and changed to a chain for the top link.

Ralph

JerryG · Jan 19, 2005

You need to use the third arm attachment pin on the tractor. You will need to be a little bit longer pin.

kensfarm · Jan 19, 2005

"What are the benefits of adding a 3 hole rocker "

There is probably a lot forgotten about old iron and the implements they use to run. I bought an old MF 65 w/
a mounted 2-row corn huskor.. the front section of the huskor is mid mounted on the tractor.. the second section is mounted to the 3pt.. but wait... it is not only connected to normal 3pt connections.. but is connected from 6 points from the rear of the tractor to the implement. One of the additional connections is connected just under the upper adjustable link.. the other two are connected out wide. The attachement section w/ the 6 connections can not be moved up or down w/ the 3pt.

I had never seen this before either.. to make it even more complex.. a "extention device " is bolted to the pto shaft.. that drives two sprockets for the front section of the huskor.. and a drive shaft for the rear section.

Soundguy · Jan 20, 2005

John.. the 3 hole rocker lets a very light draft implement affect your tractors draft sensing hydraulics. Say.. a small cultivator. For things like plows, discs, or hogs.. the bottom hole is what you need anyway.. so go with it.

Also to anser a few questions for you.. those ears you keep refering to are not 'welded' on.. they are cast in. The 8n had them.. the 2n and 9n didn't have them.

My guess is you have the rear diffy casting to a 9n or 2n.. or even a fergie tx-20 bolted onto your 8n transmission.

They are 100% bolt up compatible, same gasket and all.

I do see that you have the little 3" draft/position lever on your hyd top cover.. making it an 8n top cover. That 8n top cover is not compatible with the 9n/2n pump base. However the 8n pump base and top cover will slide right in a 9n/2n diffy housing... A 9n/2n top cover and pump base will fit on an 8n diffy housing.. etc... Most likely an 8n pump base and top cover will fit in a tx-20 fergy casting as well, as the fergie casting held the same ferguson system pump setup that was in the 9n and 2n.. etc.

It is very common to see swapped parts. Many times people swapped engines. If your 9n lost it's diffy.. if an 8n diffy was available.. you used it.. and got better hyds to boot.

What do your rear hubs looklike.. take a pic of those. that will narrow it down as to what axle trumpets you have.

You will want to know this.. as the fergy rear end will have a fergy pto shaft.. which is a hair longer than the 8n/9n/2n pto shaft. And while each diffy carrier and pto shaft assembly is bolt on compatible.. if you ever need to have pto work done.. you will need to know what pto assembly you have.. a ford or a ferguson one.

Soundguy

BobG_in_VA · Jan 20, 2005

The "3 hole" was used specifically for the Dearborn Sickle mower that was built for the 8N. The "toplink" of the mower bolted to the bottom most hole, otherwise it would not hook up correctly. The toplink on the mower had a "clip that would flip over for road carry when not being used for cutting. The top hole was all we ever used for every thing else such as plows, cultivators and drawbar stays, etc. BobG in VA

Soundguy · Jan 21, 2005

The 8n owners manual reprint I have states the top hole is for lighter draft implements.. and the lower hole for heavier draft implements.. midle for medium draft implemets... I don't consider a plow a light draft implement.. I don't think fomoco did either... most of the ford people I know avoid the top hole at all costs.. some even put a bolt thru it just to remind them.

Aparently you have never had to pull a top cover and repair it. The little linkages in there are NLA If they break.. you better find a good metal fab shop.. and get your wallet out... or buy a new top cover. most of the salvage places I shop at don't sell the linkages and valving seperate from the pulled top covers...

The biggest problem is that the big draft springs are usually rust-frozen in place, and then with a big load on the top hole, they may suddenly move a great deal putting huge stress ont he draft sensing controlls..

Soundguy

higgy · Jan 21, 2005

as normal you have nailed this one soundguy.

BobG_in_VA · Jan 21, 2005

Sorry, but I only ran one on a farm for 18 or so years (It was bought new the year I was born in 1950. I spent a bunch of time working it, not reading about it. As for light/medium or heavy draft attachments, I don't believe anyone in the 50s/60s differentiated them that way. Again I obviously don't read as much as some but only have experience on them. If you folks aren't interested in what it was like to really work one, I'll go away. Sorry for any inconvenience. BobG in VA

beenthere · Jan 21, 2005

BobG
Don't go away. The forum will be a better place with people that have real experience. Some on here (probably me included) like to puff their (our) chest out and be 'emphatic' about what they (we) know. That isn't all bad, just hard to take sometimes. Much easier if the same two people were in a face to face conversation, as the smiles and body language fill in for a lot of things that are lost on just reading the written words here. I doubt anyone here meant to hurt your feelings, or snub your experience. I agree with you, that we always used the top connection for all attachments. But, its by the book now, and the interpretations of the manual. We even have to interpret the manuals nowadays more than before, because the 'liability' language is used now, which makes for more interpretation than before.

Keep giving us your opinion, and keep cool. Without the guys with experience, this forum will become just the newbies talkin to each other. But discussion (good discussion, not just friendly banter trying to be 'so nice' to each other) is what helps everyone learn more and get our heads on straight. IMO /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

BobG_in_VA · Jan 21, 2005

beenthere: No offense was taken. One thing that sets today apart from "then" regarding all the different "drafts" was that the 8N had a set toplink and although it could be adjusted, once you had it set for one implement, by golly it was set for all (if you think about it, it would control the angle of attack for a plow and then be too short to fit the top link for the next implement, whatever it is....people picked a notch and used it. Again, the bottom and most rearward linkup on an 8N was used specifically for the the Dearborne mower..as it used its own "toplink". bobg in VA who ain't goin' away but ain't takin' no $h-t either.

JerryG · Jan 22, 2005

Bob,
I don't doubt what you are saying. In the 40s and 50s there were many things tried by many companies. Just like the hitch attachments other than the three point in use today. Every tractor company had a different way of doing things, because tractors were new to them also. We are lucky now that most attachments are more standardized at least as in using a three point hitch.

slydog · Jan 22, 2005

While I'm not a tractor expert, I have had some experience with several three hole rockers. I do want to state imphatically, I have absolutely no knowledge or experience with two hole rockers!

Regarding the three hole rockers, I have found that while the hole you use may quite possibly be determined by the size of the implement, I think the over riding deciding factor is definitely a question of which one you are personally the most comfotable with. Some people prefer the first, probably the greatest majority will pick the second, while those with more seat time obviously prefer the third.

I think it a little extreme to put a bolt through one to prevent it's use, but again I can say from experience that if that's what it takes to prevent accidental usage, it will be well worth your time and trouble to take whatever precautions you might find necessary. Depending on the hole, sometimes more draught is necessary. If you notice any undue stress or resistance, it's best to choose a different one. The key with me has been to pick just one hole and stick with it; it's not a good idea to be changing holes. I hope this also helps to clear up any confusion. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Soundguy · Jan 23, 2005

( I spent a bunch of time working it, not reading about it.

Perhaps you should have spent some more time reading about it. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif It's in the manual

And for the record.. I've worked my 4 fords quite a bit too, and have read about them. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

( As for light/medium or heavy draft attachments, I don't believe anyone in the 50s/60s differentiated them that way )

I believe any farmer worth his 'dirt' knew about draft, and how it affected implement placement, and style. The whole concept of the draft sensing hitch revoloutionized chores like plowing. Objects like plows and disc's were heavy draft implements.. objects like cultivators were light draft.

Whent he first N's were out, they only had a single hole rocker. Out of demand for more sensitive draft sensing on lighter draft implements ford went to the 3 hole rocker as a means of increasing the leverage on the draft controls. Keep in mind that ford/ferguson had the 3pt hitch out before there were implements designed for it. The market took a few years to catch up, other than OEM implements. Those light draft implements were'nt around ( in 3pt fashion ) when the 1st 1 hole rocker fords came out. Keeping with that.. remember.. ferguson had the dearborn distribution.. and he split with ford mid way thru the 8n production. It's very likely the dearborn mower you speak of was made even before the 3 hole rocker was introduced to the line.
As for toplink adjustment.. 2 bolts and you change your toplink length. Using it as a one size fit all would IMHO be lazy. Besides.. one of the included tractor tools would pull that nut off in a jiffy. I also have those original slide adjustable 2 piece toplinks on my fords.

( If you folks aren't interested in what it was like to really work one, I'll go away. Sorry for any inconvenience. )

Sorry you feel that way.. but . I'm glad you never damaged your hyd controlls by using a high draft implement in a high leverage position. It may have been luck, or skill as an operator. Could have been that the tractor was new then.. and could take more operator abuse.

Fact is.. the tractor is now 50+ years old.. doesn't need any more 'abuse' than it has to, and the new operator doesn't have 18 years of experience to fall back on when running his plow.. etc. The advice I gave was good safe advice for a newbie. To give anything else would be remis. Besides.. the FOMOCO manual CLEARLY shows/states that high draft implements use the bottom hole. That's pretty cut and dry.. there were no 'maybee' or 'sort of's' in that section.

The N group I associate with is made up of quite a few dealers and ford service mechanics from the 40's and 50's. There story is the same... they've simply made too many hyd repairs due to too much draft spring movement. That big draft spring is adjustable. if it gets loose.. you get problems. The average farmer.. as you are so fond of pointing out.. obviously doesn't read his manual.. and therefore many didn't adjust their draft springs. If they have slop.. the spring is not cushioning the very fragile NLA internal draft mechanism. Also.. due to lack of maintenance ( must be those non-reading farmers huh? /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif ) The draft spring usually rusted to the yoke.. or the yoke froze up. That's all fine untill it breaks loos under a heavy draft load one day.. and that.. coupled with an out of adjustment cushion spring can lead to a sudden over-reaction at the toplink and draft mechanism.. usually resulting in expensive hyd topcover pulling and repairs.

For what it's worth.. the owner of the tractor can do whatever he pleases.. as it is his tractor.. and his wallet that will pay for any repairs. My opinion and your opinion aside.. i can think of no better advice than to read the manual.. whether an old tractor or new tractor. Then follow the advice.

Soundguy

BobG_in_VA · Jan 23, 2005

Noted. BobG in VA

rambler · Feb 7, 2005

Most of the old N's I see on auction have that top link bracket broken off to be a 1-hole bracket by now. Guess a lot of folks didn't read the manual somewhere in the past 50 years. The bottom hole was for heavy implement useage.

My 960 is built a little tougher, tho it is cast into the bracket the names of the imlements you are to use with each hole - plow on the bottom.

--->Paul