210 loader control, sticking?

[cadblaster]

The other day I was using the loader. I had the bucket curled down, with the loader arms up to chop and drag my compost pile. Every time I tried to back up the bucket would curl up, instead of staying fixed.
I played with it a bunch, and sometimes it would work like I wanted it to, and other times it would continue to do the same thing.
This has happed before in the past on a few occasions, but never to this extent. I know the control was not in the float position (I checked), but it was acted like it was. At least for the curl cylinders as the loader arms stayed up ok.

This is very strange, has anyone else experienced this problem with thier loader? I'm wondering if I should take it in, and if so, is the control valve considered part of the tractor or part of the implement for warranty considerations. My 2210 is just over a year old.

 

[rdln]

Try holding joystick to the right for a 5 count after bucket curl hits full dump.

My loader does this also, maybe the weight of the bucket and/or material extend rods faster than they fill with fluid and keeping flow open for that short period of time lets the pump catch up.

Maybe its the fluid level also, think about it, the loader cylinders are all the way out and so are curl cylinders using the most fluid at the time you are experiencing this.

 

[cadblaster]

You might be on to something. It almost seemed like there was air in the lines. It also seemed to work correctly if I dumped, then curled up a touch before chopping and backing up. When this occured in the past, I have run the loader cylinders to the limits to purge any air. I did the same this time, but with no real effect. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Unfortunately, I didn't have time to do any systematic testing to rule anything out. Plus add in the frustration factor, and well you get the picture. I don't forsee using the loader again for awhile, so I don't know if I'll get another chance to look in to it. I may have to put the loader on just to see if I can figure out what's going on.

 

[JackIL]

Bill,

Steve has accurately described the situation about the flow not keeping the cylinder filled when it is being backloaded. This also can happen when you are dumping a heavy load. The best thing to do is to keep the engine speed up to the max in these situations. This provides the maximum amount of flow and pressure.

The hydraulic pumps on most compact and sub-compact tractors are sized to be just barely adequate to minimize cost, and in most situations will require full engine speed to work properly. You may not like the sound of the engine running at full RPMs when using the loader, but it is the only practical thing you can do if the bucket tilt circuit is not able to keep up.

JackIL

 

[keeney]

The bucket dump circuit on my 4100 has a re-circ position if you push the stick all the way to the right. Unlike the boom float position, there is no detent to push past to engage the bucket dump re-circ. If you go too far right on the stick, you go from powered dump to re-circ.

It is supposed to help dump heavy loads faster, but mostly it its just annoying because with an empty bucket, it just kind of goes limp and slowly sags and/or does not hold the desired position when back-dragging / back-digging. A lot like what is described in the original post.

Recently, I re-discovered a feature that I had noticed when I first got the tractor, but forgot about until I started using the loader heavily.

Next to the dump/curl spool on the SCV valve, there is a small metal "L"-shaped block that can be pivoted into position to prevent the bucket circuit spool from being pushed all the way in to the re-circ position (stick all the way right). I think this is there for use with an implement like a front blade or snowblower where the re-circ function would be useless. I have engaged this little metal stop on my machine and leave it that way when using the loader as well.

Its part #41 in the attached, very confusing parts diagram from the JD web-site. If you can't find it or figure out what I am talking about, I can probably be talked into taking a better photo tomorrow.

This feature is not documented in the user manual, and you have to take the cover off to really see it and mess with it, but it sure makes using the bucket dump function a lot more intuitive.

Maybe the 2210 SCV has the same thing? If not, it would probably be possible to fabricate something to limit the travel of the spool to just the normal range.

- Rick

 

[cadblaster]

You Know Rick, I think you may have hit the nail on the head. I don't know if the 2210 valve has the same limit stop, so I'll try to take a look at it this weekend.
I definately seems like the recirc is sticking. I would guess that the best analogy of the recirc position is a float for curl only, which is what it is doing. This would also explain why a short shot of up-curl would re-lock the bucket.

 

[JDFANATIC]

guys,

This is probably annecdotal, and, though I have learned to live with the limitations of the 210 loader and the 2210 (not difficult /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif, I will say that the loader on my 755 felt more positive and was able to do more than one motion at a time without distracting from another. The 2210 is a fantastic tractor, priced at a point where you are hard-pressed to go to competitive brands, but it does trade-off some things to its kindred spirits. That is not to mean the 2210 is a trade-off; in many instances it is a superior tractor to its larger brethren (size related). /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[keeney]

The float position on the boom connects both sides of the cylinder to the low pressure side and no force is exerted.

The re-circ or re-gen position on the bucket connects both sides of the cylinder to the pump or pressure side. Applying the same pressure to both sides of the cylinder results in a net force because the rod-side has a smaller cross section. So, you get a force proportional to the rod area times the PSI. Not as much as full-pressure dump, but not the same as "float", either.

What is really an issue is that the operator's guide does not explain it very well or warn the operator that it can be confusing to push the stick all the way to the right expecting full dump, but getting re-circ dump.

 

[GreenDeerJohn]

Bill,

I have experienced the exact same problem and have determined it to be somewhat random and not very repeatable. I understand the recirc feature, but I really don't think that is the case. I also get a similar problem with the bucket lift. I can be digging and the bucket will start to curl and the lift cylinders will move making digging nearly impossible. I've tried to study my inputs to the controls for a pattern, but I don't think there is one.

I had a dealer look at it a couple of weeks ago, and he was able to reproduce the problem. He contacted JD tech line and said there have not been other cases reported and they thought it had to be in the control valve, a seal intermittently leaking perhaps. They have order a replacement control valve. I will let you know how it works out.

John

 

[cadblaster]

Yes, Definately keep me updated. Thanks.