2003 F150 Transmission issues.

[kenmac]

A friend of mine has a chevy that would do what I would call a shudder when the converter tried to lock up in OD..Would make you thing the engine had a miss, but only did this in OD.. We replaced the converter .. He's still driving the truck today

 

[N80]

Update: It is a misfire. I would have sworn up and down that it was not a misfire but it is. As mentioned, apparently these trucks will not throw a code for a misfire pretty much until the coil isn't firing at all.

Anyway, we were heading down to the cabin and it started shuddering at any speed, in any gear, OD on or off to the point that I was not sure we were going to make it there. After about 15 miles of this the check engine light flickered a few times and then went back off, even though the misfires continued constantly. I just happened to have my OBD reader in the truck, plugged it in and my wife read off my cell phone that it was a "severe" number two cylinder misfire. The CEL never came back on again.

But, I'm happy. This will be a lot cheaper and easier to fix than a transmission problem (if it is just the coil, which it probably is).

The only thing that bothers me, other than being generally incompetent at automotive diagnostics, is that this vehicle can misfire that much and that bad for so long and never throw a code. This vehicle shuts down fuel injection to the misfiring cylinder so that raw gas does't get to the cats and still won't throw a code. There is no way to slice it; that is bad engineering.

Now I've just got to decide if I'm going to do it myself. It will depend on where the number two cylinder is. The back cylinders are practically in the cab.

 

[RobertBrown]

I would replace the plugs and the coils... all of them.

 

[N80]

I would replace the plugs and the coils... all of them.

I totally agree, but this truck is 13 years old, back window leaks like crazy, smells like mildew and wet dog inside and is starting to have lots of other little problems so I'm probably going to sell it.

 

[3930dave]

Now I've just got to decide if I'm going to do it myself. It will depend on where the number two cylinder is. The back cylinders are practically in the cab.

If you haven't changed plugs on a 5.4 before, do some reading up first.

Original plugs often come apart during extraction. There are dedicated tools for dealing with this issue.

Rgds, D.

 

[N80]

I have done some reading and glad I did. The plugs in the 2003 trucks like mine are not the ones that come apart. This is a problem on later models. On the trucks like mine the problem is that the plugs tend to get seized in the head and then strip the threads coming out. And even to change the plug and coil on one of the front cylinders (#2), you have to remove the fuel rail and a bunch of other stuff. I'm going to let a mechanic do it. Even toying with the idea of letting the dealership do it. And then I'm going to sell it. Will be a bit sad to see it go.

I have heard of dealerships charging $1000 to $2000 to change coils and plugs figuring that at least a few of the plugs will result in stripped threads. Dealerships also charge over $50 per coil. (You can get a whole set for $130 of (reportedly) good quality).

 

[tman1020]

Just change the bad coil it's not that bad you'll have it done in 15 or 20 minutes.

 

[N80]

It looks like the fuel rail has to come off. Lots of other hoses and plugs etc. and it is very tight in there. That worries me a bit. But stripping out a plug hole makes me real nervous. I'll get a quote from a local shop. If it sounds too steep I might give it a shot. But only with this coil. The ones in the back are pretty much unreachable and notoriously hard to get to.

 

[kenmac]

Update: It is a misfire.
The only thing that bothers me, other than being generally incompetent at automotive diagnostics, is that this vehicle can misfire that much and that bad for so long and never throw a code. This vehicle shuts down fuel injection to the misfiring cylinder so that raw gas does't get to the cats and still won't throw a code. There is no way to slice it; that is bad engineering.

glad it wasn't the tranny (converter) From what you are saying, it doesn't sound like the job will be any easier..

Funny, old Ford advertisement was.. Ford has better idea:laughing:

 

[3930dave]

I have done some reading and glad I did. The plugs in the 2003 trucks like mine are not the ones that come apart. This is a problem on later models. On the trucks like mine the problem is that the plugs tend to get seized in the head and then strip the threads coming out. And even to change the plug and coil on one of the front cylinders (#2), you have to remove the fuel rail and a bunch of other stuff. I'm going to let a mechanic do it. Even toying with the idea of letting the dealership do it. And then I'm going to sell it. Will be a bit sad to see it go.

I have heard of dealerships charging $1000 to $2000 to change coils and plugs figuring that at least a few of the plugs will result in stripped threads. Dealerships also charge over $50 per coil. (You can get a whole set for $130 of (reportedly) good quality).

Just wanted to give you a heads-up warning..... I like Ford trucks, but that is not one of Ford's better designs. Specific 5.4 weaknesses aside, this is a good example of why I'm not in general a big fan of leaving plugs in an aluminum head a really long time (meaning distance really....).

A 5.4 is more than many guys want/should to get into at home, but it's not that big a deal for a competent commercial garage.

Rgds, D.

 

[N80]

You are exactly right. One of the traditionally easiest jobs is now one of the more difficult ones. I'm a fairly proficient shade tree mechanic. I do all the brake work on my track car, I've changed shocks, I've changed carbs and headers on much older vehicles, done water pumps, valve adjustments and that sort of thing, again, on older trucks. With modern vehicles it is not so much the difficultly of the actual part or problem, it is getting access to that part or problem. Plus, I'm now living in the old family home on a (quiet) downtown (small) city street and I have no garage. So any project I do is in the driveway in the elements which also makes things that much harder and something I have to consider even when I have the tools and skills to do a job.

 

[3930dave]

True that ^.

Rgds, D.

 

[N80]

Update. Problem is still there. Not as bad and still not CEL/code. I checked and the mechanic did replace the right coil and plug (whole job, parts and labor $115 which I thought was reasonable). So, possible options include: 1) The misfire is not due to the coil or plug. Could be injector related but seems doubtful. Would expect some other code for that possibly. 2) There is another misfire on another cylinder. I will not know until it throws another code.......while I have the OBD reader in because that #$%^ light goes off and on even when there is a "severe misfire" according to the code. 3) It isn't misfire and maybe it IS the transmission still. Seriously doubt this is the case. As the #2 cylinder misfire was getting worse and the CEL finally came on it was the exact same symptoms just more and worse.

I think I am going with diagnosis 2. It is common when one coil/plug is going bad for the others to follow. Mechanic has quoted me $225 to replace remaining 7 spark plugs. I can get a whole set of coils for $150 so I'm looking at $400 to get the whole job done. It might not solve the problem but it is time to do the plugs anyway.

The truck I want to buy is a 2012 Nissan Titan Pro-X4. They're running close to $30k used with around 30k miles on them.:shocked::shocked::shocked:

So if replacing all plugs and coils works, I'll keep driving this truck. If not, time to get a loan and buy a used truck.

 

[fordmantpw]

Update. Problem is still there. Not as bad and still not CEL/code. I checked and the mechanic did replace the right coil and plug (whole job, parts and labor $115 which I thought was reasonable). So, possible options include: 1) The misfire is not due to the coil or plug. Could be injector related but seems doubtful. Would expect some other code for that possibly. 2) There is another misfire on another cylinder. I will not know until it throws another code.......while I have the OBD reader in because that #$%^ light goes off and on even when there is a "severe misfire" according to the code. 3) It isn't misfire and maybe it IS the transmission still. Seriously doubt this is the case. As the #2 cylinder misfire was getting worse and the CEL finally came on it was the exact same symptoms just more and worse.

I think I am going with diagnosis 2. It is common when one coil/plug is going bad for the others to follow. Mechanic has quoted me $225 to replace remaining 7 spark plugs. I can get a whole set of coils for $150 so I'm looking at $400 to get the whole job done. It might not solve the problem but it is time to do the plugs anyway.

The truck I want to buy is a 2012 Nissan Titan Pro-X4. They're running close to $30k used with around 30k miles on them.:shocked::shocked::shocked:

So if replacing all plugs and coils works, I'll keep driving this truck. If not, time to get a loan and buy a used truck.

I would agree with your diagnosis of #2 and I would do exactly what you ask. When mine first went out, another followed shortly after. $400 is less than sales tax on a nused truck. Good luck!

 

[3930dave]

That sounds like a good price, to get the rest changed out.

With just a bit of luck, that'll be all it takes.

Rgds, D.

 

[tman1020]

Where are they assembling the Nissan trucks do you happen to know I couldn't find anything about it. I wonder what the US parts content is on those.

 

[N80]

Canton, Mississippi.

 

[tman1020]

Canton, Mississippi.

Great thanks I was hoping they were assembling them here. I'll keep checking see if I can find parts content. I know Toyota was boasting 70% US content hopefully Nissan is close to that. It's always nice try to keep things as made in USA is possible.

 

[tman1020]

Great thanks I was hoping they were assembling them here. I'll keep checking see if I can find parts content. I know Toyota was boasting 70% US content hopefully Nissan is close to that. It's always nice try to keep things as made in USA is possible.

Finally found it looks pretty good they rate just below ram 1500 and just above Chevy and GMC 1500. With somewhere right around 50% domestic content but they rate pretty well as far as keeping profits and research and development here as well. It's cool that they are using a Cummings turbodiesel option now.