1st trailer help please!

[whiteh2okayaker]

Starting a landscape, stone masonry & tractor service business. Do not have CDL. Is 26k and under the same for commercial? I heard in GA, more than a 10k trailer you must have CDL is this true? I will be working in the S.E. I bought last week a f350 dually, 4x4 with a 6.o diesel. From what I read gvwr 11,500 tow 12,400. I have been looking at 12-14K, 18-24'. Should I go 14k and never max it or is that going to get me pulled over all the time? Going to carry L3240 FEL implements, stone and landscape material, not all at once . Want to be able to build a material container for mulch etc that is easy to unload. I found a horton hauler 14k 24' that I like but worried about the law and if I have enough truck for it. Going bumperpull due to campershell that I will do a lot of camping in. All comments welcome!
whiteh2okayaker

 

[john_bud]

Hi, You will be well served by doing some online research at the GA DOT. You probably don't need a CDL as long as the truck and trailer capacity don't add up to 26,001 or more. States can make the law more restrictive, so you have to check. Get a copy of the applicable statues - never take anyone's word on it. Not even cops and especially the DMV people. Get the statues and keep a copy.

If you cross state lines, you are commercial when total physical weight is 10,001 or more. That's truck + trailer. You're over, so you need USDOT numbers, annual inspections, commercial insurance, driver logs, drug tests, maint records, stops at all weigh stations, etc. I am not sure, but I think you will fail a DOT inspection if you have a trailer with GVWR over the truck's max. Also, the camper weight plus loaded trailer tongue weight may put you over the truck's capacity. Don't know (obviously), but it is something to keep in mind.

The CDL stuff goes by either the actual weight, the registered weight or the mfg GVWR. They use what ever yields a higher ticket. (seriously)

On a personal note, I would not want to do business with a guy that showed up with a camper shell on the work truck. It would look like he was sleeping / living out of it and that would scream "fly by night" to me. Most commercial guys use goosenecks as they haul and back better. Not all. Some don't want to give up the cargo room in the truck.

Good luck with the new biz!

jb

 

[Builder]

Starting a landscape, stone masonry & tractor service business. Do not have CDL. Is 26k and under the same for commercial?

No. You will be "commercial". You'll be required to carry a med card, a fire extinguisher, 3 triangles and if you travel more than 100 miles from your home base a log book. If you cross state lines, you'll need a DOT#.
You will be required to have a class A CDL if you have a combination of vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, provided that the vehicle being towed (trailer) is in excess of 10,000lbs. A class B is required for a single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds. Since your pickup has a GCWR of less than 26K and your truck and trailer weigh less than 26K lbs, you fail to meet one of the 2 requirements, so you don't need a CDL.

" I heard in GA, more than a 10k trailer you must have CDL is this true? I will be working in the S.E. I bought last week a f350 dually, 4x4 with a 6.o diesel. From what I read gvwr 11,500 tow 12,400. I have been looking at 12-14K, 18-24'. Should I go 14k and never max it or is that going to get me pulled over all the time? Going to carry L3240 FEL implements, stone and landscape material, not all at once . Want to be able to build a material container for mulch etc that is easy to unload. I found a horton hauler 14k 24' that I like but worried about the law and if I have enough truck for it. Going bumperpull due to campershell that I will do a lot of camping in. All comments welcome!
whiteh2okayaker

No, that's one of the biggest myths in the country. This myth was started by trailer salesman who have a lot of 10K trailers in stock. They want to sell you a stock trailer to make money right on the spot. This myth has also been carried on by people of ignorance who are too lazy to READ THEIR LAWs.

Your trailer weight is ultimately dictated by your vehicle GCWR and your towing ratings. Let's say you have a GCWR of 22,000lbs. If you want a bumper pull trailer of 14K, you should be fine if you keep your pickup under 8,000lbs and Ford says it's OK to pull 14K off a tradtional bumper pull hitch. If you think you'll have a load in the bed and your pickup will almost always weigh 10K (tools etc), then drop to a 12K trailer and you'll always be legal. Something tells me 14K is over the limit that Ford allows for bumper pull. It's Ok to buy the trailer, but don't load it over what Ford says is safe.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Just looked up some numbers for your truck in my 2006 F-350 owners manual. The GCVWR of your truck is 26,000#. Your GVWR is somewhere from 12,000# to 13,000# depending on your bed/cab configuration. Your bumper pull rating is 15,000# and if you go GN or 5th wheel it is 17,700# to 18,200# again depending on your bed/cab configuration.

I have a single rear wheel F-350 4x4 extended cab short bed and it weighs in at 7,600# with me in it and 3/4 tank of fuel. I am guessing yours is more like 7,800# to maybe 8,300# by subtracting the max trailer weight from the GCVWR

Chris

 

[whiteh2okayaker]

Thanks guys you are great!! Just starting it is daunting affording the tools to start. I may not get much work at all this year so I am trying to keep cost down as much as possible. And a CDL I do not care to get for many reasons!


"If you cross state lines, you are commercial when total physical weight is 10,001 or more. That's truck + trailer. You're over, so you need USDOT numbers, annual inspections, commercial insurance, driver logs, drug tests, maint records, stops at all weigh stations, etc. I am not sure, but I think you will fail a DOT inspection if you have a trailer with GVWR over the truck's max. Also, the camper weight plus loaded trailer tongue weight may put you over the truck's capacity. Don't know (obviously), but it is something to keep in mind."


I do appriciate your help but I still am a little slow. The 10k and over comment means to me that I need a CDL. The comment below makes me think I will not need a CDL but will need..

"No. You will be "commercial". You'll be required to carry a med card, a fire extinguisher, 3 triangles and if you travel more than 100 miles from your home base a log book. If you cross state lines, you'll need a DOT#. "

fyi
"On a personal note, I would not want to do business with a guy that showed up with a camper shell on the work truck. It would look like he was sleeping / living out of it and that would scream "fly by night" to me. Most commercial guys use goosenecks as they haul and back better. Not all. Some don't want to give up the cargo room in the truck."

I am a pro white water kayaker/instructor and have made a living in the sport for the past few years. I do camp a lot to save gas/fuel from my home to the Ocoee river where I work. I will be working this year with a US Olymipic Gold Medalist to give you an idea of the caliber of people I am around. This spring when I shoot spring photos for my web site and broshoures it will be of MY DREAM HOME! The one I have lived in for years and have over 100,000lbs of MY rock work!! So yes to my competition I may look homeless but to my clients they will know who I am and where I call home. But in my eyes regardless of what trailer they have I know who is more homeless and who's got it going on! How many fly by night contracts market their work on their dream home they own? So what's all the talk about? Wan't to see MAD skills and my home?

MySpace.com - Eric - 34 - Male - Dayton, Tennessee - www.myspace.com/chattanoogastonescape

Any other info on which trailer I should buy and why is VERY appriciated!
Eric

 

[IllMarty1]

Unless the laws have changed, drug testing begins for vehicles over 26,000 lbs.

Marty

 

[Builder]

Thanks guys you are great!! Just starting it is daunting affording the tools to start. I may not get much work at all this year so I am trying to keep cost down as much as possible. And a CDL I do not care to get for many reasons!

"If you cross state lines, you are commercial when total physical weight is 10,001 or more. That's truck + trailer. You're over, so you need USDOT numbers, annual inspections, commercial insurance, driver logs, drug tests, maint records, stops at all weigh stations, etc. I am not sure, but I think you will fail a DOT inspection if you have a trailer with GVWR over the truck's max. Also, the camper weight plus loaded trailer tongue weight may put you over the truck's capacity. Don't know (obviously), but it is something to keep in mind."

I do appriciate your help but I still am a little slow. The 10k and over comment means to me that I need a CDL. The comment below makes me think I will not need a CDL but will need.."

No, it doesn't. "Commercial" & "CDL" can be 2 different things. Think of it this way: I could have a Ford ranger and a 4K single axle trailer, but be VERY "commercial" in nature if I use my truck to make money and a guy could have a 14K trailer just to show off or use for a race car and be non-commercial. It has less to do with "weight" than it does "intent". If your rig is over 17K lbs, you must get a med card. It's a physical exam with a vision test and urine test for drugs. If you travel more than 100K miles from home base, you need a log book. Over 10K & commercial and you should have a fire ext and a set of triangles. Probably a good idea to have them anyway, right? Just keep your pickup & trailer combo at 26,000 lbs or lower and you'll be OK. Watch your pin weight, too. Just because you have a dually doesn't mean you can't "front load" the trailer too much and be overweight on your rear axle.

"fyi
"On a personal note, I would not want to do business with a guy that showed up with a camper shell on the work truck. It would look like he was sleeping / living out of it and that would scream "fly by night" to me. Most commercial guys use goosenecks as they haul and back better. Not all. Some don't want to give up the cargo room in the truck."

I am a pro white water kayaker/instructor and have made a living in the sport for the past few years. I do camp a lot to save gas/fuel from my home to the Ocoee river where I work. I will be working this year with a US Olymipic Gold Medalist to give you an idea of the caliber of people I am around. This spring when I shoot spring photos for my web site and broshoures it will be of MY DREAM HOME! The one I have lived in for years and have over 100,000lbs of MY rock work!! So yes to my competition I may look homeless but to my clients they will know who I am and where I call home. But in my eyes regardless of what trailer they have I know who is more homeless and who's got it going on! How many fly by night contracts market their work on their dream home they own? So what's all the talk about? Wan't to see MAD skills and my home?

MySpace.com - Eric - 34 - Male - Dayton, Tennessee - www.myspace.com/chattanoogastonescape

Any other info on which trailer I should buy and why is VERY appriciated!
Eric

Don't worry about the "camper" comments. Some of my subs have small campers caps on their trucks to protect tools. Heck, some of them have built in side doors with tool boxes for their tools.

It's not the truck, it's the man in the truck that counts. Some of the most knowledgeable tradesmen I ever knew didn't even drive a truck. They drove old cars to work.

 

[Builder]

Unless the laws have changed, drug testing begins for vehicles over 26,000 lbs.

Marty

17,000 in PA. You must get a med card every other year. When you get it, you are tested. Most bigger trucking co's test their drivers more frequently.

 

[Builder]

Just looked up some numbers for your truck in my 2006 F-350 owners manual. The GCVWR of your truck is 26,000#. Your GVWR is somewhere from 12,000# to 13,000# depending on your bed/cab configuration. Your bumper pull rating is 15,000# and if you go GN or 5th wheel it is 17,700# to 18,200# again depending on your bed/cab configuration.

I have a single rear wheel F-350 4x4 extended cab short bed and it weighs in at 7,600# with me in it and 3/4 tank of fuel. I am guessing yours is more like 7,800# to maybe 8,300# by subtracting the max trailer weight from the GCVWR

Chris

You just have to watch your PIN weight. If he hooked up a 15,000lb trailer to the bumper, he would have to keep the pin weight to under the max capacity of the rear axle. If he front loaded the trailer at 25%, that would be 4,000lbs plus the weight of the empty truck on the rear frame behind the rear axle. That would most likely put him overweight.

I wouldn't put much faith in Ford's "paper ratings". Most of them can never be achieved in real world towing. You have to set your rig up and weigh it yourself to be sure. After you've been pulled over & weighed is not the time to whip out the glossy color Ford towing brochure to the cops.

 

[firedog]

Well, here we go again

Allow me to straighten all this out. Here are the facts:

The law is very explicit in its ambiguity. It is straightforward and consistent except where it's different, and it is always applicable in all places unless otherwise prohibited.