1952 8N Head Gasket problem?

[motownbrowne]

I've got a 1952 Ford 8N that I could use some help with. The tractor has been in service on our farm since the early 90s, and has basically always worked flawlessly. Last year, we bought our Kubota, and the 8N got relegated to lesser duties around the farm, pulling the chicken coop, moving trailers around etc.

Anyway, in about June, I finally got around to the annual oil change (we don't really use it much) and pulled the plug to find a nice grey milkshake in the crankcase. I probably should have removed the tractor from service, but our other 8N was down, so we didn't have much of a choice. Filled it up with oil and put it back to work. When the tractor is used, it mostly gets started, run for 10 minutes, and shut down, so I was hoping that the water in the oil was the product of condensation, and from not getting run hard enough. Well, as not long after the oil change, I started noticing coolant disappearing and the oil looking milky again. The tractor started and ran fine, but seemed to run on only 3 cylinders and blow some white smoke for the first 2-5 minutes, after which it ran normally.

Fast forward to present day: I rented some shop space from our neighbor. My father (who we're buying the farm from) never was much into mechanic type stuff. He changes oil, etc. but that's about it. So, I never really learned much about tearing into brakes, axle seals, engines and other "next level" type stuff. I've got the tractor in the shop and pretty well taken apart. I've enlisted the help of a good friend of mine, who enjoys this kind of stuff, but is certainly not an expert either. We came to the conclusion that the head gasket was most likely the culprit, so we set to taking the head off. Unfortunately, we didn't test the cylinders for compression, so that's some data we don't have., but the tractor normally starts and runs great and has good oil pressure (at least according to the gauge). Got the head off tonight, and didn't see any obvious problems with the gasket. Actually, the gasket looked to be in pretty good shape. I'm taking the head into the machine shop in town tomorrow, but I'm starting to suspect that the problem is more likely to be something bigger than the gasket, like a cracked block. I guess my question is how to proceed from here. Should I slap a new gasket in it and see what happens? If the head is cracked, a new one could be within the budget, but I don't know about a new engine block. It seems like a rebuild would be possible, but it's hard to know if it would be worth it. I should also add, that the valves, the tops of the pistons, and the head seemed pretty carboned up. Not terrible, but kinda grimy. One cylinder does look different than the other three. It has white residue on the top of the piston, coating the valves, and covering part of the top of the combustion chamber. There was one spot on the gasket near this cylinder where part of the metal gasket was left on the block, but I don't know if that was the result of removing the gasket, or if it was already broken.

Well, sorry for the long post. I guess, like I said, I'm kinda new to this level of tinkering with stuff. I would like to know what your thoughts are regarding the best way to proceed, either with repairs, or replacement. Sometimes hearing other folks' ideas is a big help, especially to beginners like me. I also have a 1949 8N with a front mount distributor it runs alright, but needs some work and doesn't have the Sherman 3 range transmission like the 52. I could swap engines, or otherwise combine them to make one tractor and sell some parts, or I could sell them both in poor shape and add some cash to buy a 600 or 800 series Ford or similar tractor. I've always liked the look of the old Farmalls, maybe this is the time to try one.

Thanks in advance for all of the help!!

Ryan

 

[motownbrowne]

 

[motownbrowne]

 

[Eyecatcher]

Looks like the "white" cylinder has had water in it. If part of the gasket was stuck to the block, chances are it was a bad gasket. Take the old gasket with you to the machine shop, they can tell you.

 

[motownbrowne]

Looks like the "white" cylinder has had water in it. If part of the gasket was stuck to the block, chances are it was a bad gasket. Take the old gasket with you to the machine shop, they can tell you.

Would that explain how so much coolant seems to be getting into the crankcase? Is the idea that it's leaking into that cylinder and then past the rings?

 

[Eyecatcher]

If there's water getting into the cylinder, some will certainly get by the rings, especially in an older worn engine. An excessive amt of any fluid will cause a hydro-lock (you can't compress a fluid). However, a small amount will be blown out or go past the rings on the compression stroke. Most of the water getting into the oil, if it's a head gasket problem, is usually when the engine stops with a valve open, and the water runs down around the valve stem. A lot of it ends up in the intake and/or exhaust manifold, but some gets past the valve guides and into the pan. I see you're in the cold country, there's no chance this thing has frozen up and cracked something is there?

 

[motownbrowne]

Yes, we're definitely in cold country up here. Anything is possible. Other than totally disassembling the engine, is there any way of knowing if the block is cracked, or should I just put in a new gasket and run it. If the problem persists, then I'll know the block is shot.

Should it come to that, any thoughts on whether this is worth a rebuild, or should I not put good money after bad?

 

[Soundguy]

the steam cleaned valves are deffinately a sign of water.

since you didn't do any other tests before tearing it apart, i'd go get a soft fiber style head gasket, clean the block deck and the head, put the gasket on using copper kote. torque down, put ONLY water int he cooling system ( and change that old oil ), and then start and warm up, shut down and retorque. then run and check and run and check.

if you are in areas that freeze, then drainthe water each night.

the reason you use water and not coolant is that coolant in the crankcase will wipe out bearings very very quickly.

if after a few days you notice no water loss and no more milkshake, add coolant and go, and still watch it.

if ont he other hand you still loose fluid and blow steam and get milkshake, then leakdown test the cooling system