1920 w/ blowby on #1 cyl

[Soundguy]

got a friend that works for a small golf course.. he called me today to look at a 1920 they have. He knows I owned one .. etc.

it's 4wd, 4x12 tranny.. etc.

as I hear was running one minute then started a regular miss that also had a good chug-chug blow by so strong it would pop the dipstick out of the crank case.

by the time I got there he had the head off.. #1 was wet and oily and the wear pattern at the top of the cyl wall looke dirregualr compaired to the other 3. ( apparrently no liner.. just parent bore. ).. no scratches .. but piston was up so you couldn't see much.

piston looked good in the bore.. didn't look to be slapping..e tc... no holed pistons.

I told him he should have cracked the injector lines one at a time to ensure that it was #1.. or comp tested with injector out or something.. but he didn't think about it defore taking head off.

once he gets the driveshaft and front end out of the way the pan is coming off.. probably monday... I'm wondering if we will see rings and ring lands in the pan? apparrently the blowby was extremly excessive and as the cyl was wet with diesel, apparrently was not fireing for sure.

any guessers to add to my guess?

oh yeah.. no water in the oil, oil in the water.. and suposedly no ether used. I did call him back later and tell him to sniff the tank to see if maybee someone added gasolene to it while it was running.. but won't know till he gets back to work on monday...

soundguy

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

With no hole in the piston, my next guess would be head gasket. Usually when rings break they break a little at a time. Not disintegrate all at once. Were you able to turn the engine over so the piston was at the bottom of the bore. If the rings or ring lands were broke you should see some deep scratches in the cyl. wall. Too bad your friend was overly ambitious. You may have been able to narrow it down more.
Bill

 

[JC-jetro]

Did you get to look at the head. Could the blow by caused by issues with the valves. I'm wondering if the cam shaft lobe, push rod for valves on in #1 had damage where both valves were closed causing the blow by. How about the cam shaft/timing gear, idler gear and crankshaft gear, any damage there? can't see gear jumping causing messed up valve timing. May be a bent push rod? I bet the rings are busted.

JC,

 

[Raspy]

It might be a head gasket blown into the crankcase instead of into the water passages. You'd see that easily on the head.

It might be a damaged piston from starting with ether. Broken rings and ring lands. Has he been using ether?

 

[Caliche]

"cyl was wet with diesel, apparrently was not fireing for sure."

If the rings were that bad would you have enough compression for ignition? and excessive blowby?
I would think head problem. Maybe valve guide? Cracked head? As mentioned, head gasket?
Sunday night full belly thoughts. Hope you get her fixed.

 

[Soundguy]

um.. the other 3 cyl's were fireing fine.. only #1 was wet.

Unfortunately when i got there he had already pulled the head. piston was only down about an inch.. head looked good.. no obvious signs of head gasket issue.. but you know how that goes.. hard to tell once you pull it apart.

there was no water / oil mix either.. no steam, no smoke. oil does not look diluted either. suposely just happened, and they shut it down and towed back to the shop.. again.. suposedly no ether used.. though i did tell my buddy to check the fuel tank for gas smell ( you never know ).

I didn't think to check the valves.. ie.. to see if both were could be closed.. will mention that tomorrow when i see him.

when i left him he was working on getting the drive train out of the way to get the pan off to yank the piston.. that should tell us a few things..

also.. front of engine was not all dismantled yet.. but will mention the valve timing, and also tell him to inspect the cam.. etc.

soundguy

"cyl was wet with diesel, apparrently was not fireing for sure."

If the rings were that bad would you have enough compression for ignition? and excessive blowby?
I would think head problem. Maybe valve guide? Cracked head? As mentioned, head gasket?
Sunday night full belly thoughts. Hope you get her fixed.

 

[RickB]

Time they get done with it, they will place a higher value on troubleshooting prior to tear-down.

 

[Soundguy]

Time they get done with it, they will place a higher value on troubleshooting prior to tear-down.

I should be seeing him tonight, if I get time after work.

He really should know bettger.. he used to be a diesel maechanic for larger engines.. like the cat 3208 , etc.. and larger truck engines.. then for the last 10 ys he's been a truck driver at a local co. early this year that job let go, and he decided to take it easy and got a maintenance job at the local golf course.. so now he works on alot of golf carts, and lawn care equipment, and now this cut diesel... probably the first diesel he's had to fix this decade

If I go over tonight I'll see what he's found with the cyl wall as I would surely think he has the front end and drive shaft off and piston out by now.

will post back what i see..

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

ok.. more info.. more questions..

stopped by and saw my buddy pete to find out what he found out.

ok.. pan off, piston out... new info

aluminum piston xfered some metal to the cyl wall.. rings contracted and look cooked. piston looks like it got REAL hot.

aluminum flaked off the cyl wall easilly and cleaned up perfectly with no scratching or gouges.. cyl wall looks 'normal' and shiney.. no hot spots or discoloration.. very very little ridge at the top.. similar to other cyls.

we smoked the head and old head gasket over.. no obvious sing of a blow or bypass.

here's another tidbit.

op of machine told us that it used about a gallon of coolant within the days prior to this happening.

-0- water in the pan.. no emulsion at all.

none of the cyls look steam cleaned either.. water ports all look good.. preior to teardown unit had normal amount of coolant in the system... though might have been some steam puffs from the breather.. though no sign of water in the oil area..

looks like that piston got HOT

I thought maybee loss of oiling to that cyl but no.. ALL rod and main bearing shells are virtually new looking.. all journals are perfect..

at this point.. new piston and rings are coming from the dealer plus a new head and pan gasket.. plus a few other cover gaskets.. 230 for the piston.. etc.. probably 500$ total for all parts and gooey stuff in total it looks like.. still no real answer though.

any ideas?

soundguy

 

[JC-jetro]

Soundguy

Very intriguing, hard to crack. If excessive heat was the cause, then why not other pistons? no water loss, no mix of oil and water/antifreeze but was the water pump actually pumping? When I was in college I ended up with strange overheating issue on my Buick Skylark without any water loss at all. I looked and looked could not figure it out, only by accident I inspected hoses by squeezing the lower radiator hose and it was solid as a rock. I drained the system down and noticed they had a spring in the lower hose to maintain the shape of the hose. the spring collapsed and the stuff in the system and the fact I never renewed the antifreeze caused a buildup a corral reef that effectively reduced the flow without any obvious leak.

I'm just thinking out loud here, this thing might keep us bamboozled yet

JC,