1/2 ton diesel

[Sonoma]

When are auto makers finally make a 1/2 ton diesel? This could be a big seller. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[kokopelli2]

i hear ford has one on the way...06 i think. jeep might also have something coming out, but on a dakota sized truck.

 

[QueBota]

Dodge has some test trucks running around with a small Cummins V8, reviews seem promising. I would buy one today if it were available. Horsepower should be around mid 200's with close to 500 ft. lbs of torque and highway mileage at least in the low twenties.

Dave

 

[LWFrisk]

This is a big pickup, probably not a big seller, but it is a diesel My Next Pickup /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[RoyJackson]

Didn't Mazda have a diesel in their pick ups a few years ago?

 

[EquipmentJunkie]

Sonoma, I agree with you that there is demand for a lighter-duty diesel pickup. But, don't expect any diesels in 1/2-tons or compact pickups until American diesel fuel has its sulfur content reduced from 500 ppm to 15 ppm in a year or so. Right now with the higher sulfur fuel, it is cost-prohibitive to comply with US emissions regulations.

When my 2000 VW Golf TDI was totalled about three years ago, I said that my next vehicle would be both diesel and 4WD. Few vehicle options...none of them small. So now I drive a Dodge Ram with a Cummins...not because I need the 3/4-ton truck but because I wanted both a diesel and 4WD. I usually average about 21-22 mpg in summer and 19.5 in winter.

Roy, I think you are correct. Ford, Chevrolet, Toyota, Nissan, and I think, Mazda, all had diesels in their compact pickups in the early-80's. My father used to have an '84 S-10 with a 2.2 liter Isuzu diesel that would get over 30 mpg. Dog slow, however.

There have been diesel 1/2-ton pickups in the works for several years, but they got canned for one reason or another.

Ford was going to have a 4.5 V6 version of the 6.0 Navistar-built PowerStroke a few years ago and pulled the plug due to emissions-related issues. Ford and Navistar reached a settlement on the engine development costs.

Detroit Diesel showed a 4.0 V6 in a Durango at the Detroit Auto Show about 5 years ago. Didn't make it to market.

Cummins is currently working on V6 and V8 architecture for lighter-duty, automotive applications and have a prototype V8 in a Dodge 1/2-ton. There was an article on this truck in the last issue of the Turbo Diesel Register. The article makes it sound impressive. I talked to a Cummins rep earlier this week and it sounds promising that this engine will find a home in a 1/2-ton truck, but not before the cleaner diesel fuel is in use.

Jeep just released the Liberty with a 2.8, 4-cylinder diesel built by the Italian company, VM Motori. I haven't heard one run or driven one yet, but if something would happen to the Ram, I'd seriously look at the Jeep.

Its about time that Americans embrace diesels in their vehicles. Some European countries have diesel market share over 50%...in cars!

Sonoma, do you think you have touched a raw nerve of mine?

Viva La Diesel!

 

[AndyM]

<font color="blue"> Didn't Mazda have a diesel in their pick ups a few years ago? </font>

Yep, all of the compact pickups in the early 1980's had a diesel option...

Mazda, Toyota, Isuzu, Chevy LUV, even the Ford Ranger had one for a year or two.

My first car was a 1982 Datsun diesel pickup. I miss that truck. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

If Ford offered a small diesel in the F-150, I would buy one in a second! Seems to be a lot of potential customers for one!

 

[RoyJackson]

"Its about time that Americans embrace diesels in their vehicles. Some European countries have diesel market share over 50%...in cars!"

Yeah, but the price of diesel around here is 15 to 25 cents higher per gallon then gas.

I'd definitely go for another diesel (had a late '80's Chevy with the 6.2 liter), so that's a ½ ton truck with a diesel. However, with the higher initial cost of the engine, along with the added fuel costs, I don't think they're a particularly good deal any more.

To me, it's like a hydro tranny on a tractor...I wouldn't walk away from a good deal just because a tractor had a hydro, but I wouldn't spend the extra dollars on one.

 

[Birdhunter1]

I had read somewhere and I think it might have been on here that Perkins and Ford were in cahoots at one point in developing an engine for the F-150.
There is a thread of this exact same subject over on Ford truck enthusiasts and I have heard of a Cummins being developed and the 4.5 v6 that failed is back at the drawing board for redesign.
I just wish I could remember where I read that about Perkins and Ford.

 

[Dargo]

Roy, I had a 1/2 ton Chevy with the 6.5 diesel and really liked the concept. It had good power, a quad cab, 4X4, and got great mileage. However, the 6.5 GM diesel uses a Standyne (sp?) fuel pump that is pricey and causes issues, as well as a real problem with the heads cracking on the 6.5 GM diesel.

I think very soon we'll see several choices of 1/2 ton pickups with diesel engines. The durability and superior economy of diesel over gas engines is a good combination. It's just when you use a really heavy diesel in a really heavy pickup, your fuel advantage fades. In case anyone is wondering, is it not disputable that 1 gallon of diesel contains more BTU's than one gallon of gasoline. Just look it up. Therefore, a good appropriately sized diesel in a 1/2 ton pickup would be a great product.

I really like Toyota Land Cruisers, but they only sell the diesel version of them over seas. Why?! They've worked great for years, but we can't get them here. Not exactly a 1/2 ton pickup, but it is in a similar weight category.

 

[QueBota]

Quick scan of some info on the prototype.

Cummins V-8 Info

Dave

 

[rozett]

The EPA requirements in the weight class of the half-ton trucks has been the biggest impediment to offering a diesel. Thus far, there are none that would meet them outside the Benz and VW diesels.

I have a Ford Excursion, which is built on the SuperDuty chassis. Over 55% of all Excursions are diesel. Ford is scrambling to get a diesel developed that would work in the F150/Expedition chassis and that would meet EPA requirements. They still do not have an answer that they can put into production.

As for the increased cost of diesel fuel..... I get about 11-12 mpg from my V-10 (gas) Excursion. The diesel Excursion gets in the low to mid 20s for mpg. The increased fuel cost is still a win because of the extra mileage.

 

[RobertN]

When I got my Cummins Dodge 3.5 years ago, diesel was running about the same price as regular, sometimes lower. But, as fuel prices went up, diesel really went up. Gas prices have gone down, but diesel has stayed high here, in some casses 10 cents or more than premium.

Still though, if I had a 3/4 ton 4x4 gas pickup with 4.11's, I would get a lot less mileage than I do in the equivilant diesel. It evens out better on the side of diesel. But, it was an even better deal a couple years ago...

 

[Dargo]

Since I have a large family (5 kids) and my wife won't drive a minivan, I looked at buying an Excursion. I have dozens of friends who own auto dealers, so I just went to the auction with them. I was shocked to find that the diesel version of the Excursion brought nearly double what the gas version brought. I didn't want a gas version as every dealer told me that it was a "pink elephant" and they wouldn't consider one for their lot, so I was looking for the diesel version. In over 20 years in and around the car business, I've never seen such a difference in the value of a vehicle simply based on the engine option! Oh yeah, I ended up buying her a Suburban. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[rozett]

I'm not sure what they meant by a 'pink elephant', but the V-10 Excursion is a great vehicle. The Ex is a much better tow vehicle than the Suburban. Although the Suburban has a better interior, the Ex has a lot more room. When I bought mine, Ford had the 7.3L diesel. It was just too noisy. The current 6.0L is better. But the Suburban is not available with any diesel and most are built on the lighter truck chassis. I buy my vehicles slightly used (just like my tractors /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif) and keep them till they die. So resale value is of no significance to me.

 

[RedDog]

I've never been in a Excursion, but do have a 97 4x4, 3/4ton Suburban with the 6.5 diesel. Wife really likes it. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

She wanted bigger tires and bigger exhaust,,, so I did it!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I do wish the mileage was better. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

RedDog

 

[Dargo]

With all of my dealer friends, I'm able to trade every 2 or 3 years without much cost if I buy the right vehicle. The Excursion would certainly be a better fit for my large clan but, according to the books and the dealers, I'd get murdered on resale of a gas version. On the Suburban, I can take it or leave it. (I actually have only driven it 2 times in the 7 months or so we've had it) However, the Suburbans seem to hold incredible resale and was the closest to fitting the bill for my needs. It does seem to have a lot more interior rattles than I'd expect. Our Expediton was much quieter inside, but had basically no storage space behind the 3rd seat. That pretty well only left me the Excursion or Suburban.

Supposedly GM will have a diesel available in the Suburbans in '07 from what dealers are told. That means I'll have to wait until about '08 or '09 to buy one. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif I even looked at a Hummer for her. Talk about zero room behind the rear seat! I'd still like to find a mint condition loaded up Excursion diesel sometime. Unfortunately, it appears that tons of other people would too. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif I can't believe Ford caved into the liberal push to get rid of large vehicles. I figure that if you can afford to buy all the gas needed to run one of those things, you are doing your part to power the economy and putting a lot of money into circulation! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif