Electricity Price Increases

[KennyG]

I don’t follow the argument. Do you actually believe that any sane person has proposed getting 90% of our power from wind? Are you under some impression that we get such a large fraction of our energy from any single source, today?!?

Take anything to the point of absurdity, and you can make an argument against it, but that doesn’t make for intelligent conversation.

I think you misunderstood the post. We often see that a certain location got 100% of it's electricity from renewables for an hour or a day. That happens. However, you will then find that that area got 30% or 40% of energy for the year from renewables. The other 60% or 70% had to come from fossil or nuclear sources that are reliably available at any time. As a result (because maintenance can be scheduled for low demand times) a mix of these fossil or nuclear sources could have provided 100% of the demand without a need for renewables. However, since they actually are allowed to produce less power, they become less economic.

Let's put it in tractor terms. Let's say you can rent a tractor for $100 a day. You can get a job that reimburses you $10 an hour for equipment use and takes 10 hours a day. However, Joe, the owners brother in law has a bulldozer and he gets to do 4 hours of the work. Now you can only get paid for only 6 hours of work and you lose money.

We often see that renewables are cheaper than other sources. However, you very seldom see any explanation of the basis for that conclusion. Windmills and solar cells are cheaper on an installed megawatt capacity basis than any other option. However, when you look at actual power generated, they only generate about 1/3 the annual production of fossil or nuclear sources. Also, inherent in installation of renewables is the need to install and maintain reliable other sources which are then underutilized. The cost of that unused backup capacity is never considered in the cost of renewable energy. In economic terms this is an externality that should be included.

 

[MossRoad]

Renewables overtake coal as world's biggest source of electricity

Developing countries lead the historic clean energy charge but the US and EU rely more on fossil fuels than before, a think tank study shows.

www.bbc.com

 

[MossRoad]

Despite what’s happening in the USA, renewables are winning globally

The world is betting on solar and wind, despite Trump’s championing of fossil fuels in the United States.

thebulletin.org

 

[ultrarunner]

There is a chill on Solar and EV coming from my state regulators…

Maybe too many converts?

 

[MossRoad]

There is a chill on Solar and EV coming from my state regulators…

Maybe too many converts?

If too many people generate their own power, the power companies don't bring in enough money to maintain the infrastructure for those that don't generate their own power.

 

[MossRoad]

Similar argument to how to make EVs pay their fair share of road tax VS gasoline tax.

 

[ponytug]

If too many people generate their own power, the power companies don't bring in enough money to maintain the infrastructure for those that don't generate their own power.

That's an increasingly frequent subject for discussion in our neck of the woods, and I think a real issue, though it isn't clear to me that there is a single solution.

If you ever want grid power, and I personally do because we can't realistically self generate enough power over a winter storm or during bad fires, then it seems to me that some sort of fee is in order for a grid interconnection. Commercially, it comes under the category of a "demand reservation charge", which is the maximum allowable amount of power that can be drawn ever. Basically, the company pays to reserve enough power "just in case". We pay one currently on an ag meter. My experience is that commercially it is priced up around the cost of leasing a standby generator, so it can get to be something of a toss up budget wise for a company.

The trend here is to raise the fixed fees, aka monthly meter charge, to pay for the costs of the transmission and distribution of electricity. So solar owners pay something towards the grid costs. Whether it is the right number is beyond what I know. An unintended consequence of raising the fixed electrical costs is that the power cost as a fraction of the bill goes down, reducing the incentive to conserve electricity. Historically, California has a trend of steadily reduced kWh/person/yr since the mid-seventies, but that has to end sooner or later. A fixed fee is also somewhat of a regressive tax, so complaints on that front are being vocalized.

If we were to add any additional solar would likely to be set up to maximize winter production, with panels much closer to the vertical than a typical roof mount solar. TBD at the moment as the utility doesn't seem to know its own mind about solar and batteries at the moment and what is or not permissible. Such is life, at least with this utility.

All the best,

Peter

 

[WM75Guy]

There is a chill on Solar and EV coming from my state regulators…

Maybe too many converts?

California has required solar power since 2020 and and now battery storage to meet 100% of the power requirements for new residential and multi-family construction. The power companies still have to provide infrastructure, without the revenue. And with the switch to EVs gas taxes go down. One of those "reap what you sow" situations.

Solar PV, Solar Ready, Battery Energy Storage System (BESS) & BESS-Ready

 

[ponytug]

California has required solar power since 2020 and and now battery storage to meet 100% of the power requirements for new residential and multi-family construction. The power companies still have to provide infrastructure, without the revenue. And with the switch to EVs gas taxes go down. One of those "reap what you sow" situations.

View attachment 4239735

Solar PV, Solar Ready, Battery Energy Storage System (BESS) & BESS-Ready

That's a requirement for some solar, not 100%, and to be battery ready. The solar installation requirement also primarily applies to large developers. The battery portion is just a requirement to be battery ready. That translates to a requirement for a main service panel with 225A busbars, allowing for a full 200A of battery/solar/load usage. The marginal cost is next to nothing, but saves a lot of grief later. Trust me. I learned that one the hard way.

Around here, battery storage system for commercially use and for multifamily buildings typically have an ROI of less than a year for most businesses. Even before the ITC solar credit expiry, many of our local solar companies were making most of their revenue and profit from commercial battery, or battery plus solar installations. High electrical cost here drive the short ROIs for solar/BESS.

It also helps the utilities out by the businesses not drawing power during the peak demand times of 4pm to 9pm, lowering costs for the utility. If you look at the distribution cost in California, you can see the peak distribution prices flattening out.

All the best, Peter

 

[ultrarunner]

Similar argument to how to make EVs pay their fair share of road tax VS gasoline tax.

Already a higher registration and weight a factor…

Now the push is a per mile tax for all…

Why not let ice pay fuel tax and mileage for EV?