Chryslers grandson wants to save the brand

   / Chryslers grandson wants to save the brand #191  
Deutz Fahr is owned by Same, an italian company that builds all sub 120hp models for them.

Ok but we both recognize that Deutz is a very old well recognized German company, right? I mean Fendt uses Deutz diesel engines in some models and MAN in others.

Fendt is bought at the time they brought their halo product, the vario transmission to the market. Before that, they were a small manufacturer with a price tag for excellence that they could hardly warrant for any longer: 8000 tractors a year just wasnt enough to keep in the race. Agco bought them and used the vario in MF tractors, and financed the spread of vario drivelines over all product series of Fendt so that it could be offered for competitive prices, generating enough sales to warrant that pricing (chicken or egg story)

I admire Agco founder Robert Radcliffe:

If you want to know what leadership sounds like, hear Radcliffes speech from 27:15 onwards, how he motivated White dealers to forget past misery and step boldly into the ring

I know! Own 3 of them and looking for a fourth!!! All 3 of more are Fendt road speed transmission, rear axle and braking system. I believe they are the best choice and value for used tractors

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How about Claas? They are also making huge inroads into Ag around the world
 
   / Chryslers grandson wants to save the brand
  • Thread Starter
#192  
Ok but we both recognize that Deutz is a very old well recognized German company, right? I mean Fendt uses Deutz diesel engines in some models and MAN in others.
Theres a distinction between Deutz AG (Aktien Gesellschaft) of which Volvo construction owns a good slice, and Deutz-Fahr the tractor brand sold off to Same 20 years ago.

Fendt only uses Deutz engines in the old model 716-718-720 and the 500 series. 200, 300, 600, 700 series use Agco Power (Formerly Sisu or Valmet) and the 900, 1000 and 1100 use a MAN when pushed hard at above 40hp per liter

Fendt had too many problems with Deutz engines longevity, especially in the 800 series and largest 900 series models, the Deutz engines sometimes only lasted 5000 hours between rebuilds

I know! Own 3 of them and looking for a fourth!!! All 3 of more are Fendt road speed transmission, rear axle and braking system. I believe they are the best choice and value for used tractors
Well, if you count a 20.000 euro Vario swap, on average every 10.000hrs, your hourly cost increase by 2 euro per hour. A local contractor runs two DynaVT for PTO work like mowing, where it pays off. For the slurry tank, silage wagons, plough, they run Dyna6 because in that kind of work the extra purchase and repair cost dont translate into higher hourly work output.
How about Claas? They are also making huge inroads into Ag around the world
Claas purchased the tractor branch of Renault in France. Paining Renaults green really hurt Claas reputation, as the electronics were very French, like the MF 6100 series, developed before Agco bought MF

To make up for past mistakes, Claas recalled 10 year old tractors to put the main circuit boards in an enclosed box to shield it from dust and static interference, as the French initially had all the electronics dangling under the steering column. That was about 10 years ago, but it seems they have their tractor act pretty much together nowadays (in harvesters they have been market leader in Europe for decades)
 
   / Chryslers grandson wants to save the brand #193  
We have a huge Class Tractor storage lot near me. There’s hundreds of them awaiting tires & final assembly.
 
   / Chryslers grandson wants to save the brand #194  
I admire Agco founder Robert Radcliffe:

If you want to know what leadership sounds like, hear Radcliffes speech from 27:15 onwards, how he motivated White dealers to forget past misery and step boldly into the ring
👍🏻
 
   / Chryslers grandson wants to save the brand #195  
Not saying they should do a full production run of this Charger-El Camio thing, but I bet if they ran say, 5000 of them, they would sell them. I know, you don't want so many models, but it would be a simple change (barring crash test requirements). Do it with a 5.7L Hemi AWD pursuit?

 
   / Chryslers grandson wants to save the brand #196  
Not saying they should do a full production run of this Charger-El Camio thing, but I bet if they ran say, 5000 of them, they would sell them. I know, you don't want so many models, but it would be a simple change (barring crash test requirements). Do it with a 5.7L Hemi AWD pursuit?

Wheel- fender clearance aside, that thing’s pretty sharp looking
 
   / Chryslers grandson wants to save the brand #197  
Anyways, Dodge used to be sorta ahead of the game, by letting their "car guys" mess around, and come up with new and cool stuff. Let some car guys, with a good engineering background, play around, and good things come from it. SRTs, Viper Rams, even the "vanilla" R/Ts, I'm sure a focus group was involved, but if we had a movie telling the story, I'll bet there was a group of engineers screwing around, saying, "hmm, will this fit" as the base of it.
 
   / Chryslers grandson wants to save the brand #198  
Not saying they should do a full production run of this Charger-El Camio thing, but I bet if they ran say, 5000 of them, they would sell them. I know, you don't want so many models, but it would be a simple change (barring crash test requirements). Do it with a 5.7L Hemi AWD pursuit?

Whoa... someone actually talking about Chrysler cars, in the Chrysler thread? :ROFLMAO:

I think a Magnum re-introduction in the current body style would sell even better than a sedan with a pickup bed. Imagine this beast in 6.4L displacement with AWD, mom would always have those kids to school on-time!

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You said the key words, "crash test". It's why even the SRT and Hellcat Chargers are available only in auto transmission, despite a decade-long outcry from fanatics wanting a manual option. Long story short, the cost of crash testing had Dodge re-using the crash-approved unibody from the C300, rather than going back through that expense with the mod's required to accommodate a manual transmission. The costs must be substantial, for Dodge to have risked those potential sales, knowing some might buy Corvettes or even Mustangs, in their stead.
 
   / Chryslers grandson wants to save the brand #199  
Anyways, Dodge used to be sorta ahead of the game, by letting their "car guys" mess around, and come up with new and cool stuff. Let some car guys, with a good engineering background, play around, and good things come from it. it.
They let ‘em loose here:
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   / Chryslers grandson wants to save the brand #200  
They let ‘em loose here:
View attachment 1984128
I look at that car entirely differently, as a flat-out embarrassment to modern Chrysler history. It was proposed to be something great, but then they ultimately released it with a turd of an engine, something like 235 very wimpy horses.

The only thing that made it worse, is it came from the same era as the PT Cruiser. What a complete POS. Whereas the Prowler is something that could have been great, if management hadn't completely neutered it with a wimpy power plant, the PT Cruiser was absolute garbage through and through, from day 1 to the end.

Those two vehicles book-end a very embarrassing era for Chrysler, but they've had some great vehicles from that time until the present. The Viper, the SRT-10 truck, the Charger and Challenger SRT 392 and Hellcat models... all made what I consider the second golden-age of muscle cars.
 

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