John Deere Proprietary Belts?

[Suburban Plowboy]

I have a JD 430 yard tractor, and it seems like I have to work on it 5 times a year. Every time, I learn something new about John Deere abusing customers by making things hard to work on or more expensive than they have to be.

This tractor ate its alternator belt, and in order to replace it, you have to drop the mower, remove the seat, remove the upper sheet metal, disconnect the taillights, disconnect the driveshaft from the engine, loosen the U-joint at the rear, dislodge the pulley from the engine, thread the belt through the gap and put it on the pulleys, and then do it all again in reverse. You can do it with the mower attached, but it's better to have the access, and removing the mower is a job that can take anywhere from 30 to 90 minutes, depending on how stubborn it is that day. I am half a day's work into an alternator belt change, and I don't even have the belt yet.

I was just told that I shouldn't use a v belt from Tractor Supply, because they are made for 35-degree pulleys, and John Deere deliberately makes its pulleys different (40 degrees) so it can sell fan belts to customers who are basically hostages. Does anyone here have any info on this? Is it true that a standard belt will not last? The factory part number is M800313, if anyone cares.

 

[MTGreen]

Gates (and competitors) make V belts in 30 degree, 37 degree, 38 degree, and 40 degree for many OEMs and angle is dependent on application and engineering principles. Deere is not in the belt manufacturing business (nor is any tractor manufacturer afaik) and so doesn't have proprietary belts.

Not to defend Deere's [recently generally crappy] business practices here, but what makes you certain belt angle selection was a business decision instead of an engineering one?

It would seem to me that if Tractor Supply is trying to cross reference a 30-something degree belt for a 40 degree application, the fault is with Tractor Supply here.

Did you look up cross reference belts from competing manufacturers Gates/Delco/Bando/etc. with the correct angle and length?
Then did you compare prices versus the Deere part number?

If it were my tractor and the replacement chore is as onerous as you describe, I would want the best quality belt I could buy so it would last as long as possible. I've had good luck with the Gates FleetRunner line that is designed for extended hard use in fleet maintained vehicles and that's likely the route I would go.

 

[tomplum]

Well, it certainly isn't an even sized belt nor is it pricey. John Deere Fan Belt - M800313

 

[Suburban Plowboy]

The belt's price is not the problem. It's cheap. Not sure why, given that Deere's parts are generally obscenely expensive. Maybe sellers just want to clear out NOS belts for a 31-year-old machine. It's apparently an ordinary plastic and rubber belt, not something fancy like Kevlar, so it was not expensive to make.

There are two problems. One is that after spending half a day taking the tractor apart, I have to wait for a package or run a one-hour errand and burn about $9 worth of gas. The second problem is that the tractor has other belts I may need to change eventually.

Tractor Supply's cross-referencing is not to blame here. Their site doesn't offer cross-referencing. I didn't find any useful reference when I went to the store. I have to go in and buy by size.

I think it was a business decision because I've had many vehicles, and their alternator belts held up fine in spite of having a different profile from John Deere belts. I can only recall having one other v belt fail during my long life. I don't think John Deere has discovered the secret to belt longevity. If 35-degree belts work in cars that rack up six figures in mileage, they ought to work in lawnmowers that run two hours a week.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't help being suspicious of a company that spends millions fighting Right to Repair and seriously expects people to spend $250 for a lawnmower muffler. They also make sealed hydraulic cylinders that can't be repaired without machine tools and welding. No excuse for that.

I paid nearly nothing for this thing, and I don't want to have to spring for another diesel mower, but it seems like something goes wrong with it about one in five times I try to use it. It was built to be sold, not worked on, so it has been a source of frustration.

 

[beenthere]

I don't find JD parts "obscenely" expensive. It's a myth that gets carried along.

 

[Suburban Plowboy]

A $250 muffler is obscenely expensive. Plenty of other parts could be added to the list. Not a myth. Reality.

 

[oldtimer 66]

Here is a suggestion, but I don't know it it would work in your application. On one of the machine tools at the shop they would tie a new belt over the particular device as a backup belt. That is, they would replace the broken belt with a new one and also place a second new belt over the spindle arrangement but not engaged on the pulleys. It would be tied back out of the way but over the critical shaft so that the next time the belt belt broke the gear box and main shaft did not need to be removed to replace the belt. Just a thought to lessen your repair time.

 

[BravoXray]

My 1991 430 still has the original alternator belt as far as I know. I've owned it since 1993 and have put on about 900 of the 1100 hours it has on it.

 

[MTGreen]

A $250 muffler is obscenely expensive. Plenty of other parts could be added to the list. Not a myth. Reality.

On the other hand, the part for a tractor discontinued 31 years ago is still available for purchase. How many other brands can say the same?

 

[mrmikey]

That is, they would replace the broken belt with a new one and also place a second new belt over the spindle arrangement but not engaged on the pulleys

That is a very slick idea for a hard to replace belt.

 

[LHF2019]

A $250 muffler is obscenely expensive. Plenty of other parts could be added to the list. Not a myth. Reality.

I just saved 50% on a part by buying JD. Stripped nut on a bush hog branded brushhog. Over $40 from Bush Hog. $20.60 from JD. Just takes research and patience. JD is not always more expensive and in the whole grand scheme of getting parts they are in line with everybody else. I buy OEM filters and JD is MUCH cheaper than NH.

 

[workinonit]

I don't really understand the complaint. If you own equipment, parts break, sometimes they are in hard to get to areas, sometimes it's because you went the cheap way in the beginning and JD parts are definitely no more expensive that anyone else. If you don't like what you have get something else if you cant afford that then fix what you have. You're looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[dodge man]

I own a JD and owned a Kubota for 10 years before that. Kubota, JD, Ford, Cummins etc sell parts and price them where they want. I’m always surprised at the price of certain parts. Things I expect to be expensive aren’t and things that should be cheap aren’t.

I broke a taillight on my Kubota. I figured it would be $50 or more, it was something like $20. The lightbulb behind it I thought would be $2. I can’t remember what Kubota wanted for 1 light bulb but I could tell the parts guy was embarrassed to tell me, something like $12. I bought the bulb at an auto parts store for a couple of dollars.

A lot of times you can find parts from another source as in the OP’s case but getting the correct size can be difficult.

 

[5030]

You want to talk about an effort in frustration changing a belt, try a big Massey farm tractor. You have to basically take everything apart on the front on the engine because on the big Massey tractors, there is a front drive shaft that runs a hydraulic pump that has to be removed to replace a belt. Not my tractor, belongs to a farmer down the road.

What he did was buy one of those linked together belts and replace the failed belt with that. 5 minute job and done.

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

ah... another I hate <place brand name here> cause they choose a combo of things that work best for them.

Should we be blaming belt manufacturers like Gates for not making belts for popular tractors.
or
Should we be blaming TSC for not stocking common non OEM replacement parts for very common tractors?
or ???

 

[5030]

I will say I run Gates Fleet runner belts on about everything.

 

[Cycledude]

I used to own a John Deere mower and in my case it was very true aftermarket belts didn’t last as long as the much more expensive John Deere belts and I did try a few different brands.

 

[tomplum]

The belt's price is not the problem. It's cheap. Not sure why, given that Deere's parts are generally obscenely expensive. Maybe sellers just want to clear out NOS belts for a 31-year-old machine. It's apparently an ordinary plastic and rubber belt, not something fancy like Kevlar, so it was not expensive to make.

There are two problems. One is that after spending half a day taking the tractor apart, I have to wait for a package or run a one-hour errand and burn about $9 worth of gas. The second problem is that the tractor has other belts I may need to change eventually.

Tractor Supply's cross-referencing is not to blame here. Their site doesn't offer cross-referencing. I didn't find any useful reference when I went to the store. I have to go in and buy by size.

I think it was a business decision because I've had many vehicles, and their alternator belts held up fine in spite of having a different profile from John Deere belts. I can only recall having one other v belt fail during my long life. I don't think John Deere has discovered the secret to belt longevity. If 35-degree belts work in cars that rack up six figures in mileage, they ought to work in lawnmowers that run two hours a week.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't help being suspicious of a company that spends millions fighting Right to Repair and seriously expects people to spend $250 for a lawnmower muffler. They also make sealed hydraulic cylinders that can't be repaired without machine tools and welding. No excuse for that.

I paid nearly nothing for this thing, and I don't want to have to spring for another diesel mower, but it seems like something goes wrong with it about one in five times I try to use it. It was built to be sold, not worked on, so it has been a source of frustration.

My point was more that it is a short, odd sized belt that is difficult to install. There isn't lots of room to make up for a half sized belt if off the shelf is full sized.
There's lots that I do that I know that needs an OEM belt to work right and there is lots that it is Ok to use an aftermarket.

 

[BravoXray]

That is a very slick idea for a hard to replace belt.

That's what some owners of Piper Cherokee planes used to do. The alternator drove off a pulley just behind the prop, thus the prop hat to be taken off when (not if) the belt failed. So they would put a second belt on, but tied out of the way making it easy to get the alternator charging again.

 

[LD1]

I dont understand the complaint either? Just a general....."lets bash JD thread"

Its a 31 year old lawnmower and someone is salty because it needs worked on from time to time.

And since its a Yanmar engine.....the belt and muffler might not even have been made/installed by deere???? I dunno?

Fact is.....if you wrench on stuff (either for a living or your own stuff).....the frustrations of why things are put together the way they are.....to make simple tasks like changing a belt (in your example).....such a task, is NOT limited to just Deere, and not just tractors either.

I just replaced a starter on a lister-petter engine in a ditch witch trencher. Had to remove two hydraulic hoses and a motor mount and had to us swivel sockets (not a simple u-joint and regular socket as there was no room). Crap design for sure where a motor mount blocks one of the starter bolts...lol. And to top it off, the simple denso starter (that can be had online or crossed to about any parts store for $200-$300)....Ditch witch wanted $1200 for

Just be fortunate that its a simple little garden tractor.