Large Garden Plot from Pasture: Take 2

[HawkinsHollow]

So I started a thread with a similar title a couple of months ago and in true TBN fashion it went sideways and the negative Nancys started telling me how stupid I was for doing a garden and hour away. I got so fed up with reading this I just gave up on the post. I guess it is partly my fault for not mentioning that this is not a garden I will be tending exclusively. This garden will be at a cabin my good friends stay in 3-4 days a week, so this is not a solo venture I am just a helper bee.

SOOOOO, now that that is out of the way can I get some information on how you guys would successfully turn a pasture into a garden plot? I am sure she wants to do it herbicide free and wants to move towards a no till arrangement in the future. They do have a 25 hp Kubota tractor and I have access to a good sized disc. Soil test samples are being taken this weekend. Looking to do things like corn, Tomatoes, winter and summer squash, beans, etc. Your typical summer veggie varieties. I am thinking cover crops/green manure this winter/spring might be a good idea.

 

[K5lwq]

Has this pasture been managed or is it just open land with grass on it? Has it had cattle?

Soil samples is a great start but if it has not been kept up with I would suspect it needs lime. Now is the time for spreading lime.

 

[HawkinsHollow]

It was a soybean field 5 years ago, been let go since then. My buddy keeps it bushhogged now, but yeah it is random grasses and weeds. I suspected the same thing about the lime, we will wait to hear back from the soil sample so we are not stabbing in the dark.

 

[K5lwq]

In that case it should not be compacted too much. Should make a nice garden spot. What type of cover crop are you considering?

 

[HawkinsHollow]

In that case it should not be compacted too much. Should make a nice garden spot. What type of cover crop are you considering?

Buckwheat? Clover? Haven't researched that yet.

 

[K5lwq]

Maybe check with the county extension office in that are and see what they recommend. Turnip Greens is what I have done in the past but I like to eat them. Also I am in a warmer climate so not sure what would be best.

 

[paulsharvey]

So, I remember the old post, but don't remember all the details from the posts. I would probably look at turn plowing and liming. I know everyone likes a 3 point tiller, but they can really over 'fluff' the soil, and then you need to recompact it somewhat to get good seed to soil contact, and also, you can build up an eventual hard pan layer.

When you say no till, do you mean strip till or true no till? Do you have a decent method to plant no till?

For the first season, I would look at turn plow and lime this winter, and then disk in spring. That's not going to completely kill off your weeds, but it should help and get you 60% there.

 

[jeff9366]

I am sure she wants to do it herbicide free and wants to move towards a no till arrangement in the future.

You can "turn" a pasture into a garden using mechanical means without herbicides.

You can grow perennial crops organically, without synthetic herbicides. (I farmed 200 acres of organically grown wine grapes in California.) However, gardens are almost always annual plants such as tomatoes, winter and summer squash, beans, etc. Your typical summer veggie varieties.

I have never known of annual plants being grown COMMERCIALLY no till.

 

[jeff9366]

They do have a 25 hp Kubota tractor and I have access to a good sized disc.

You keep feeding us these generalities.....

What is the Kubota model, which will tell us the tractor weight, which along with information on whether the tractor is 2-WD or 4-WD will tell us what size disk the tractor can pull.

No 25-hp tractor has sufficient weight to pull a disk harrow that can penetrate pasture sod in PRIMARY TILLAGE. A 25-hp, 4-WD Kubota can pull a disk with 16" diameter pans which will be adequate for SECONDARY TILLAGE in a garden tilled and planted every year.

A PTO-powered Roto-Tiller would be a far better tractor implement.

 

[paulsharvey]

Strip tilling might be what he needs; where you don't blanket disturb, but do till about a 30" area for the planting bed. You can also do a heavy organic mulch layer, to combat the weeds, and retain moisture.

if I remember right? he wanted a fairly large, like 1.5-2.5 acre garden, but I could have the details mixed up.

 

[Rockbadchild]

IMO a tiller is a must for gardens, you are not going to break the ground properly with a disk... before the winter plow it, next year till it make rows and plant.

 

[oldnslo]

A disc will work up sod but it takes a lot of passes in different directions.

If wanting no till how are you planning on controlling weeds?

If planting rows do you want to work area between rows or keep them native and mow them?

 

[jeff9366]

I am sure she wants to do it herbicide free and wants to move towards a no till arrangement in the future. They do have a 25 hp Kubota tractor. Looking to do things like corn, Tomatoes, winter and summer squash, beans, etc. Your typical summer veggie varieties.

Buckeye Tractor Online Catalog - Garden Series Page 01

Buckeye Tractor Garden Series Equipment Introduction Page

www.buctraco.com

https://www.lsuagcenter.com/~/media/system/e/6/6/e/e66ed13be4f5a5216aa214276e14dacb/pub2917tractorimplements1.pdf

 

[jeff9366]

I want to plan a large ~100 x 50 garden plot for next year. The 3 challenges to overcome before next spring are: 1) Beating out the pasture grass and creating a good soil bed that is up to the challenge. 2) coming up with a good plan to beat the weeds 3) making this as low maintenance as possible.

5,000 square feet = 0.1147842 acre​

Soy Beans, a nitrogen fixing legume, are a good warm weather green manure if you can keep hungry deer out.

 

[paulsharvey]

Oh, maybe it was another post talking about 1+ acre garden. 50x100, one issue is, it's going take a min of 10 ft on the ends to turn tractor around, so now we have an 50x80. Try the disc, and see how it attacks the sod layer, but if you can track down a single bottom turn plow, that's probably the best way.

I dont know your soil, or your area, but tillers are fine, but also not necessary, and very expensive. You can do a lot with a single bottom plow, a disc, and a single row cultivator or hiller (depending on whether you want to plan in hills or just rows).

The reason I say plow in next couple months, you know the weeds/grasses will be a problem and burying them now, will allow them to start decaying. It won't be a finished seed bed, so you will need to disc probably atleast 3 passes in spring.

Any thought how you want to plant? 50x80, you can easily do that by hoe and hand, or a push seeder.

Weed control; a small tiller, hoe, cultivator, plastic, or heavy mulch layer will be needed if you want to minimize chemical treatment.

 

[MF243RedTop]

Needs to be turned over good and deep to go herbicide free...

 

[Rockbadchild]

Around here in clay a disk won't break ground for a garden ... it scratch it and that about it... if you plow it before, it will break it but the grassy layer will stay in chuck... so around here a tiller would be a must.

 

[CH4Ohio]

I use both tillage and herbicides and still can't keep up with the weeds.

 

[PandDLong]

The first break up of the pasture is the tough part and is purely mechanical (killing the top with herbicides doesn't really help).

I used a PTO driven tiller for this task a few times but it took a real beating to do the work (55" tiller with my old JD 25HP tractor and now with my Kubota 35 HP). Perhaps the tiller was too light but it would bounce and buck around trying to cut through the top layer of turf and needed several passes. This is probably a factor in it needing new bearings and seals ...

A farmer neighbour of mine took an old agricultural cultivator and cut it down to about a 4 foot width and some of the shanks can be raised if needed. Those shanks are probably 12-18" long.

I found if I drag that cultivator through the area trying to keep it at about 6" deep it did a good job to break up the sod layer into chunks and strips. Sometimes I would just have 2 or 3 shanks down to make it manageable - particularly when i was using my little 25HP JD. I did that in a crisscross fashion and then the tiller would get through that with no problem and churn it to a nice tilth. I would expect disks would be effective at that point as well. I wanted to avoid using a plow as my topsoil depth varies and I wanted to keep my soil layers as-is rather than doing a turn-over.

I think a subsoiler or middle buster would have the same effect if you keep it just working the top 6" or so. However with just one shank it would require more passes.

Works for me; may not for others.

Michael

 

[Yander]

You haven't mentioned whether this is a serious venture to provide veggies to sell or just adventure to provide veggies for your home.

The difference in how you answer that question makes it difference in how I would tell you to do this.

If just for your home you're overthinking it. You don't need to cover crop. There are so many ways you could address this depends on your equipment and desire to do work.

Sound like the ground has layed fallow for a few years.

Get yourself a walk behind tiller. Plant everything wide enough to get between the rows with the walk behind.

Unless you're using a fabric or a barrier you're going to have weeds just prepare on how you're going to deal with them.

I cultivate a couple times a summer with a tiller. I use an electric plug in but you may opt for gas. A little Mantis tiller can be bought used for about a hundred bucks.

You will have more of the crops you listed then you can eat and give away.

So all you need is a 3-point tiller for the kubota and a small gas or electric tiller to go between rows. All in $1800.

Buy a bag of 45 urea nitrogen for the corn. Don't try to grow corn without it