Easements

[Jstpssng]

I debated posting this in FP but opted to do it here instead. Easements, right of ways, and adverse possession all are topics which come up from time to town. 20 years after purchasing her house, this woman found out that there was an old brick and mortar septic pipe running through her property. The easement was recorded back in 1880, but wasn't mentioned in her deed.

Discovery of old sewer has become a nightmare for Bangor woman

She is worried about not just her property value and family’s health, but who will be responsible when one of the sewer lines fails.

www.bangordailynews.com

I believe that you can read the article if you want, the Bangor Daily allows two free articles per month.

 

[Omega Woods]

I'd be going to the title company who issued the buyer's policy when it was sold.

 

[Jstpssng]

I'd be going to the title company who issued the buyer's policy when it was sold.

Apparently they only protect the lender, unless you get your own policy.

 

[notaz3]

Always get title insurance when buying property. cheap insurance that can save hassle in the long run.

We had an issue with a property, where the original owner did not state in paperwork or escrow that we had water rights to his well and that we were responsible for maintaining the access road to our property (that they used to get to their adjacent lot).
When it came time for him to sell the adjacent lot they noticed the mistake and tried to get us to redact paperwork. They wanted us to sign paperwork forfeiting rights to their well (that we never have or will use) and that we will maintain the access road though our property.
I told him to "Nope. My title/dead will stay exactly how it was summited to the county".
When he tried to fight it, it ended up costing him a buyer (because escrow took to long) and he had to cut a new access road in completely on his property.
We did eventually sign a simple paper that stated "We do not want/need rights to the water well located on _-_-_ property".

Another one of our properties carries a utility right-of-way for city/county access that has never been used; however, if they suddenly decide to put in utilities there isn't anything I can say about it.

 

[Omega Woods]

Apparently they only protect the lender, unless you get your own policy.

Yes, there are two types of title insurance. One for the lender and one for the buyer. Any buyer that doesn't pay for title insurance is a fool, in my opinion. There are too many horror stories (like the one you posted) from ancient claims wreaking havoc on one's most valuable possession. Very cheap protection in my experience.

What Is Title Insurance And Do I Need It?

When you take out a mortgage, one part of your closing costs will be title insurance. The premium is a one-time charge, and the policy protects the lender. You also can purchase owner’s title insurance to protect yourself, but it’s not required. Here’s what you need to know about what title insur

www.forbes.com

For anyone reading this thread and considering buying a piece of property, I strongly urge you to get title insurance for yourself each and every time you buy property.

 

[two_bit_score]

Apparently they only protect the lender, unless you get your own policy.

I’ve always followed that rule but with all the exclusions they have now I’m not sure title insurance is worth a cup of warm spit.

 

[Torvy]

I've always felt that easements held by companies, should be required to come with lease payments to the current owner of the property. Easements should also be required to have fixed dimensions. Here in Texas, they are usually effectively undefined.

Similarly, I think all property rights should be required to confer with the property. It is bizarre to me that they allow separation of water or mineral rights from the surface rights. It causes confusion and heartache when a mineral rights owner decides to exercise those rights on land they don't own.

 

[ponytug]

I've always felt that easements held by companies, should be required to come with lease payments to the current owner of the property. Easements should also be required to have fixed dimensions. Here in Texas, they are usually effectively undefined.

Similarly, I think all property rights should be required to confer with the property. It is bizarre to me that they allow separation of water or mineral rights from the surface rights. It causes confusion and heartache when a mineral rights owner decides to exercise those rights on land they don't own.

Well, there are some easements like that, and obviously they aren't the first choice of the folks wanting the easement. A friend got unlimited water (through a 1.5" pipe) for a water pipeline easement (a big deal here in California) through his property, and we nearly bought a property that had a per pole power line easement/lease (IIRC, something $1.5/pole/yr, not much, but not zero either). I enjoy reading the old titles; they often embed so much local history, and color.

I have walked away from a couple of property deals that turned out to have missing mineral rights. As you say, it can cause real heartache to the property owners if the mineral rights get exercised. I did not want to be that owner.

YMMV...

All the best,

Peter

 

[dodge man]

I read the story. I don’t feel sorry for her. What do people think happens when they turn the water on or flush the toilet? Her situation isn’t unique.

 

[ddbackhoe]

Always get title insurance when buying property. cheap insurance that can save hassle in the long run.

Title insurance is a protection for the settlement attorney. It is their responsibility to find these errors.

 

[ddbackhoe]

I read the story. I don’t feel sorry for her. What do people think happens when they turn the water on or flush the toilet? Her situation isn’t unique.

From the article, “A legal gray area also complicates the issue. There is an easement in place between the city and a previous owner of Cutting’s land, granting the city the right to construct and maintain a public sewer main there. The easement, signed by Lorenzo Andrews in 1880, took effect before the house was built in 1888, according to city property records.”

Too bad for her, go sue your settlement attorney for failure to disclose.

A regular locating service would never have found a brick and mortar pipe. Are we supposed to believe they normally use gpr ?

 

[dodge man]

It’s pretty common title searches only go back so many years. There are also exclusions in title commitments so they cover themselves. Looking at the picture I don’t see her house, so it doesn’t look like it hurts her property that much to me.

 

[two_bit_score]

Any easements without specific limitations are the result of some poor legal work on one end of the transaction - the property owners end. Easements are negotiable; at the beginning.

As for as minerals being separated from the surface that genie will never be put back in the bottle. People actually make a business out of finding parcels of land which they can buy, sever the mineral rights and sell the cleaned up property for more then they paid originally including legal and clean up costs. It's amazing that people keep buying these tracts without mineral rights attached for as much money as they are paying.

 

[two_bit_score]

I have walked away from a couple of property deals that turned out to have missing mineral rights. As you say, it can cause real heartache to the property owners if the mineral rights get exercised. I did not want to be that owner.

I've seen case after case where city dwellers come to the country and pay a premium price for a scenic tract of land without thinking about the mineral rights and then are shocked and amazed that a operating company is about to set up a well pad or a tank battery on their place. Yeah they get paid surface damages but their dream place is now spoiled.

 

[Joel/ak]

We are in a situation where the county is about to do eminent domain. It's been a battle for about 6 years and so far we are winning.

They want to put a bike trail in through the southern edge of our property. This bike trail is about 40 miles long. All the land is guaranteed for there use except our little 1 mile section. I'll sell the 100 acres before a bike trail goes through. I'm already sick of trespassers , I don't want a paved road to bring more in

 

[etpm]

When we bought our little chunk of paradise I was quite careful about easements and mineral rights. Though I didn't expect anybody would want any mineral rights, and I was correct, I still wasn't gonna buy any land that I didn't own completely to the center of the earth. There are two easements on our land, the county road and the power lines. I could then and can now live with them. My wife does sometimes complain about the county road easement but I'm fine with it because along with the easement I get a county maintained dead end paved road. There was some concern about a railroad track easement but it was located about 2000 feet from my north property line. It will never get built anyway but you never know.
Eric

 

[Jstpssng]

I've always felt that easements held by companies, should be required to come with lease payments to the current owner of the property. Easements should also be required to have fixed dimensions. Here in Texas, they are usually effectively undefined.

Similarly, I think all property rights should be required to confer with the property. It is bizarre to me that they allow separation of water or mineral rights from the surface rights. It causes confusion and heartache when a mineral rights owner decides to exercise those rights on land they don't own.

The easement dates back to 1880. Her house was built 8 years later. Things were a bit different then. At the time they were trying to getting away from running the sewer into the ditch, and into the river.

I read the story. I don’t feel sorry for her. What do people think happens when they turn the water on or flush the toilet? Her situation isn’t unique.

It didn't hurt her until she found out about it.

 

[dodge man]

Unless the sewer is running under her house I would call her situation normal. I’m a retired land surveyor and did a lot of surveying for water and sewer projects. We found all sorts of weird things when replacing sewers. Multiple houses tied into one service, a house ties into the sewer main 2 blocks away etc. I also watched them televise sewers. There is a lot of bad sewers in this country. It’s a constant battle to keep them functioning in some towns.

 

[two_bit_score]

Keep in mind that these utility easements (highline wires Not local service Lines) restrict the use of property to some extent and you still pay taxes on that property, unless you were able to negotiate a payment to cover the taxes of the encumbered property.

 

[paulsharvey]

Recently at work, well about 18 months ago; I was reviewing a permit (yes, we physcially go out and look at it before approving), and saw what absolutely appeared to be a DOT outfall ditch from road to the river, not shown on developments plans. We did some research, and yes, 100% DOT had an easement dated back to 1952; but developers deed work and title research missed it. Developers had to re-engineer site and move some buildings/add retaining walls. Forget the name of the act/law/statue, but title companies only have to go back like 25-30 years. With road/utility, a lot of this stuff can go back over a 100 years, and it is dang hard to track down. Same property had a gas main about 25 ft on their property, and no one could track down an easement, beyond a "Murphy deed" or something that reserved the right to purchase, but was not purchased. Gas Authority considered eminate domain, but it would have killed the development, and reduced much needed tax/development, ect.