Not a good time to buy a car

[NoTrespassing]

Those doc fees stick in my craw too. Didn't realize that those had gone sky high recently. Dunno about your state, but in mine the title application is done thru the DMV, total ripoff for them to charge that much money just to type up the application...might take them all of 5 minutes to do. Last 2 vehicles I bought were in a neighboring state where they didn't even have my state's forms, tried to charge me anyway. Told them it was a deal killer if they didn't drop those fees. This was pre-covid, and it was still a buyers market so they folded. I would have walked if they didn't.

We can only hope. Dealers are slimy enough in the best of times, the last couple years have brought out the worst. Used car lots are even worse.
Unfortunately, the game is rigged, and if the manufacturers intentionally keep the supply low customers don't have a lot of choice.

Are manufacturers colluding? I don't understand why one manufacturer wouldn't up their supply to take market share away from another if they could.

 

[sd455dan]

Are manufacturers colluding? I don't understand why one manufacturer wouldn't up their supply to take market share away from another if they could.

It seems between the tax break shenanigans and Tesla ready to build almost 2 million vehicles this year, Dropping 13.5 K off of the price on Model Ys will light the fire under other EV makers that are trying to maximize the sales prices.

Impatiently waiting for my delivery date.

One thing with buying a Tesla- all of the dealer "games" go out the window and the price is the price.

 

[not2old]

Fried the motor in my daily driver 98 Volvo V70R last year and decided not to fix it as I'm now able to afford something nicer. Been using my spare car, a 93 Volvo 960 wagon until prices become sensible again. Totaled it last week when some ice led me on an off road adventure. No way I'm putting my summer car (14 CTS-V coupe) on the road until April. Just paid 40K out the door for a 18 Grand Cherokee Trailhawk 5.7. Thant's completely crazy to me but under the present conditions felt that it could have been worse. I'm an old fart (turning 75) and was totally uncomfortable only having my 90 F250 available to drive. We even considered spending 100K on a F150 hybrid until I found out you can't get it in a supercab longbox. I don't consider anything with a 5 1/2 foot box a truck. That is probably as close as I'll ever get to an EV

 

[sd455dan]

Fried the motor in my daily driver 98 Volvo V70R last year and decided not to fix it as I'm now able to afford something nicer. Been using my spare car, a 93 Volvo 960 wagon until prices become sensible again. Totaled it last week when some ice led me on an off road adventure. No way I'm putting my summer car (14 CTS-V coupe) on the road until April. Just paid 40K out the door for a 18 Grand Cherokee Trailhawk 5.7. Thant's completely crazy to me but under the present conditions felt that it could have been worse. I'm an old fart (turning 75) and was totally uncomfortable only having my 90 F250 available to drive. We even considered spending 100K on a F150 hybrid until I found out you can't get it in a supercab longbox. I don't consider anything with a 5 1/2 foot box a truck. That is probably as close as I'll ever get to an EV

That was the Only gas powered Rig I almost went with,.... A newish fully optioned Grand Cherokee, or even an SRT-8.

Will Always be a Fan of the Grand Cherokees and even Nice condition Old Wagoneer's

 

[not2old]

I considered the SRT but decided that the CTS-V is enough of a hot rod and gas guzzler. I can afford the gas, just don't like wasting money and how much do I really want to spend on a winter car? Really wanted a Volvo V90T6 but decided that being more than two hours away from a dealer with one of these modern computers on wheels wasn't a good idea. I found reasonable deals on some similar SUV's but was shocked at how many had white interiors. Absolutely refused to buy one. The very light grey (oyster) on my CTS-V is bad enough. If a wrecker had a complete black interior I'd not hesitate to trade at $1000.00 or more and mine is spotless at about 67000KM.

 

[JasperFrank]

It is interesting that Ford's CEO, Jim Farley, has stated that the dealership franchise laws are outdated.

"....if the manufacturers intentionally keep the supply low customers don't have a lot of choice.." This is almost entirely a wrong way to think about it. The manufacturers don't control the available inventory unless its a special built $$$$$ halo vehicle. Its the dealer network that is keeping the supply low. We have been looking for a "Mid-Sized Truck," now for three years. And I really want a F-150. But not a new one with all the crap I don't want or need. Ford needs to make a complaint truck thats built not for comfort, but for work.

 

[5030]

As everyone probably knows, it's a terrible time to purchase a vehicle. We went SUV shopping yesterday and it was a joke. One new car dealer we stopped at straight out said, we are marking up all new vehicles a minimum of $4000 over MSRP. That was Hyundai and Honda. The Ford dealer claimed they weren't marking any new vehicles up except the top of the line full size Bronco.

We drove 1 1/2 hours to test drive a used Lincoln SUV only to find out the battery was dead. We drove it anyway and the battery didn't charge during the test drive. The vehicle was only 3 1/2 years old with 20K miles, still under warranty. We left and I don't plan on going back.

Kevin

I suspect that at some point, dealers will either get in line or fold.

 

[5030]

According to the manufacturers, they will not go back down. They never again want massive on the ground inventory. They like this lower inventory and more per customer order along with the sales prices at sticker cost. They are saying that we will likely never go back, there is far more money made this way.

I think that will depend on how many fold more than anything else.

 

[Oaktree]

Are manufacturers colluding? I don't understand why one manufacturer wouldn't up their supply to take market share away from another if they could.

I hope you're right.

It is interesting that Ford's CEO, Jim Farley, has stated that the dealership franchise laws are outdated.

"....if the manufacturers intentionally keep the supply low customers don't have a lot of choice.." This is almost entirely a wrong way to think about it. The manufacturers don't control the available inventory unless its a special built $$$$$ halo vehicle. Its the dealer network that is keeping the supply low.

I don't follow you. You're saying the dealerships don't want any vehicles on the lot? Doesn't make sense to me.
It's the manufacturers that seem to be pushing the need to special order a vehicle on us.

One thing with buying a Tesla- all of the dealer "games" go out the window and the price is the price.

Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing. Remember Saturn tried that fixed price business model 30-odd years ago. How'd that work out?
Tesla's getting away with it because they're a special interest vehicle that's currently a status symbol in certain circles. No guarantee that's gonna fly if/when EVs become mainstream and they have to compete with other automakers building similar products.

 

[Rock Crawler]

I think that will depend on how many fold more than anything else.

What you quoted of mine was almost a year ago in 3-2022, that was the common perception at that time. Fast forward to 2023 under the Bidinflation period with increasing interest rates, the Covid joke is over, inventory is actually stacking up a bit, manufacturer promos are starting to be seen again to grease the wheels for sales... things are slowly morphing back towards a pre 2020 market. My next guess is that this return to "normal" will take another 1-2 years, but my crystal ball suggests that by 2025 we will be back to seeing the long-typical spring 1/2 ton truck promos that get you out around 10% off MSRP with no haggle work. That is my premonition.

 

[5030]

Sounds good to me but... I'm not in the market for a new vehicle. Much as I drive (under 12K a year), my vehicles should outlast me. Hopefully.

 

[tradosaurus]

I watch a few car channels on Utube and the consensus is that by summer prices should start coming down to more reasonable levels as dealers are starting to lose money on cars sitting on the lots. Auction prices are coming down which indicate prices in general on cars are going down.

I need to buy a used car for my high school daughter so it will be interesting. I use to be able to find a decent car for $4k cash easy a few years ago.

 

[Blue Mule]

Even people with decent credit are being given 8-13% interest rates. It's causing payments to be jacked way up. My guess, and I could end up totally wrong, but my guess is that by summer automakers will have to start offering large rebates and incentives again to try and offset the interest rates. A lot of these companies want to keep cash flowing as much as possible because they're infusing that cash into EV development, so they're going to want to keep moving inventory. Will be interesting to see how this all shakes out.

I do know that my 2022 pickup truck has lost about 10k in value in the last few months, so the crash is definitely happening already. Thankfully I don't plan to ever get rid of my pickup truck.

 

[Hay Dude]

Even people with decent credit are being given 8-13% interest rates. It's causing payments to be jacked way up. My guess, and I could end up totally wrong, but my guess is that by summer automakers will have to start offering large rebates and incentives again to try and offset the interest rates. A lot of these companies want to keep cash flowing as much as possible because they're infusing that cash into EV development, so they're going to want to keep moving inventory. Will be interesting to see how this all shakes out.

I do know that my 2022 pickup truck has lost about 10k in value in the last few months, so the crash is definitely happening already. Thankfully I don't plan to ever get rid of my pickup truck.

I see prices coming down, a little, but I don’t see inventory that I used to see.
Local Ford dealer has like 2 F-150’s and a 250 gasser
My buddy is a tech there and says they can’t get any trucks allocated.

Kind of makes me believe prices will stay up (even with high interest rates) because supply is so bad.

Farm tractors are hopeless. There’s no inventory and prices are ridiculous.

 

[Blue Mule]

I see prices coming down, a little, but I don’t see inventory that I used to see.
Local Ford dealer has like 2 F-150’s and a 250 gasser
My buddy is a tech there and says they can’t get any trucks allocated.

Kind of makes me believe prices will stay up (even with high interest rates) because supply is so bad.

Farm tractors are hopeless. There’s no inventory and prices are ridiculous.

Our JD dealers here are finally fully restocked in tractors. Any tractor you want is on the lot. But, as you say prices are ridiculous. Today a 3025D with FEL costs what a 3043 with FEL cost 24 months ago.

 

[sd455dan]

Our JD dealers here are finally fully restocked in tractors. Any tractor you want is on the lot. But, as you say prices are ridiculous. Today a 3025D with FEL costs what a 3043 with FEL cost 24 months ago.

So if you want to buy new green you will need lots of green.?

 

[walnutman]

HD diesel pickups are now 80k-100k
I have a 2004 Dodge Cummins 2500 4x4 SLT. Bought it brand new 18 years ago. i think I paid 39K.
The first picture is of it at the dealership when I first picked it up.
Second picture is what it looks like now.

 

[check]

That's nice to hear that you have a dealer who wasn't a ***** during the last few months of "irrational exuberance " in the frothy auto market.
For close to 20 years I have been a loyal customer to a Ford dealer.. probably bought 15+\~ vehicles from them in those years and inevitably gave them front line ready High quality trades in that time. The past 18-24 months we bought 3 vehicles.. went to them first to buy out a lease that was ending.. they tried to stick us for an extra 4K over the residual ..citing "market value" ..I politely them no and the process was done with a friend who is a used car dealer. Then we were buying a 90k+ sticker price F450.. I get it, they are somewhat hard to find, I was willing to pay him sticker for it..they said they needed 20k over... I then not so politely told them to F off. Last straw was another lease they tried to bend me over on when we were trying to buy it out. They wanted 4500 plus their 699.00 "doc" fee over the original residual that was on the lease contract. ..That was the final straw and they have lost a customer, My advice is to remember who these dealers were that were ****** during this time, it's going to change.. don't reward their bad behavior with your hard earned dollars.

How can they ask for more than the residual? On my lease contract there is no option for the dealer to charge any more than exactly what the residual value is. And that is what I did when I bought out my current 2016 F150 after I leased it for two years. It was worth way more than the $31K I paid for it, but the dealer couldn’t do anything about that. He had to give it to me for the $31K.

 

[Tomtint]

How can they ask for more than the residual? On my lease contract there is no option for the dealer to charge any more than exactly what the residual value is. And that is what I did when I bought out my current 2016 F150 after I leased it for two years. It was worth way more than the $31K I paid for it, but the dealer couldn’t do anything about that. He had to give it to me for the $31K.

Because they are scum bags. I had called Ford for my payoff so I knew what it was. Also had my original lease contract which stated exactly what the residual was going to be at turn in time. It had language that said something to the effect that the dealer could add their juice to facilitate a buyout if that were to occur. In my mind that means they plug you for their "doc" fees to transfer the ownership from Ford to me. The contract also stipulated that in the event of a buyout, It had to be done at a Ford dealer, I could not go through Ford direct.
The work around for that is to have a friend in the used car business. A used car dealer can buy you out of a lease, or take your car in as a trade and bypass the dealer. You can then buy that car from them if you choose.

 

[Oaktree]

I do know that my 2022 pickup truck has lost about 10k in value in the last few months, so the crash is definitely happening already. Thankfully I don't plan to ever get rid of my pickup truck.

I likewise drive my vehicles until they're no longer roadworthy, so resale value is irrelevant to me. Actually, lower resale value is a plus since I always buy used.