Solar Interest and Selling Power Back

[herm0016]

we just installed a 10.8 kw system. total cost installed is about 23k which includes a propane generator backup source as well. about 20k for the solar. Canadian made panels and microinverters. just waiting for the the go ahead by the utility to flip the switch. we got a low interest loan 1.99 % apr 25 years, its about 100 bucks a month as long as we put the tax credit back on it next year. this makes ouR power cost constant for 25 years, then near 0 hopefully. I do not think rates will go down, so we should be ahead very quickly. our power bills are between 90 and 150 per month.

 

[shooterdon]

When I looked into it, it was a loser. Your situation may be different.

One thing to consider. Do you spend $25k to get to 100% of your needs, or $15k and supply 90% of your needs?

There is a point of dismissing return.

 

[orezok]

The utilities are playing a scam. Individuals built mega watts of generation at their personal cost. The solar generation saved the utility from building a Billion dollar generation plant and associated distribution. Now they want to take possession of the individuals solar output. for their share holder gain. Quite a scam.

 

[workinonit]

I agree to some degree however I know that solar power doesn't enter into any load demand calculations the power companies use since loads are based on peaks and for the most part solar is irrelevent at peak times. But I do agree that power companies are taking advantage of the customers on many fronts. The one thing I think power companies are concerned about with solar is the lack of VAR load control on the grid. It's something that doesn't get talked about and is as important or in my opinion more important than MW load. NERC requires them to strictly control VAR load on the system. New voltage regulators that we install today have to be equipped with PSS or power system stabilizers so that regulators don't initiate rolling blackouts in the event of a grid upset. With solar having no real active voltage control the grid voltage must be offset by the large units the companies have on the grid. As more and more solar hits the grid this becomes a bigger issue.

 

[Roric]

Regarding var on a solar install:
It appears that the solaredge inverter I use is correcting the PF power factor I am seeing.
Does var and related power factor specifications fall into required specs for inverters put online?

regards,

R

 

[MossRoad]

I think if I was going to install solar, I’d want to be able to store it myself, and use it from that battery, then only use grid power when the batteries were depleted. That’s due to the way our state has limited net metering, in that it won’t provide the grid as your battery economically.

And, unfortunately, the in that type of system, the return on investment is too long for me.

I’d be better off spending less money than a solar system and super-insulating my house, replacing the windows and installing new, efficient HVAC.

That’s my situation currently. May not apply to others.

 

[workinonit]

Actually, it is against NERC regulations for any generator to incorporatye VAR control. If a regulator is using VAR for control the result of a grid upset has the adverse effect on voltage. Therefore all excitation systems must be designed to control soley on voltage. More voltage, more VARS, less voltage, less VARS. Any excitation system that is installed now must have a PSS if it is above a certain MVA rating. I would think the solar inverters would have some sort of voltage control but likely nothing that can be tuned for stability.

 

[workinonit]

Moss, that's what I am trying to discern. I'm thinking just a stand alone for my consuption or do nothing at all.

 

[5030]

Applies to us as well. ROI is way too long for this old man. At least in our situation, the utility gives us a large break in electric cost for our HWH and if we had a heat pump (we don't), that too. We have 2 separate smart meters, one for the house and one for the HWH. Bottom line with any of it is, it's going to cost you more and more for electricity as well as NG (and propane), nothing you can do about it except turn the t'stat down in the winter or up in the summer or go to alternative fuels like we did for heat. I heat my shop as well as the house with bio mass. The house still requires the heat plant on very cold days but the biomass stove handles it quite well most other times and the one in the shop is always able to maintain the temperature in there.. I have an overhead, high efficiency propane heater but I rarely use it.

I'm in kind of a unique situation as my biomass fuel (seed corn) I get for free so my fuel costs are negligible. I do mix in processed wood pellets with the seed corn at a ratio of 1 of pellets to 3 of corn and there is the issues of loading the units, cleaning them weekly and dumping the ashes but it's still way cheaper than relying on the utility (electric or in our case propane) for heat. Propane is steadily climbing presently. and so is electricity and I think everyone knows why.

Because I'm inherently cheap, I've been heating with biomass for at least 30 years now.

Even considered putting in a stoker coal stove in the house but rice coal around here is hard to obtain where as corn and processed wood pellets aren't and processed wood pellets are supposedly carbon neutral whatever that means.

 

[Roric]

I have been told that I am the only thing getting cheaper nowadays. Whatever she says, I guess.
Here is latest electrical bill:
7.5kw solar array (no battery) average summer with90 degree days and humid too.
I realize we use less than normal kilowatt hours but I have been on a crusade to increase the energy efficiency for a
long time (replaced wall ac with split unit, led lights etc)
On the other hand, we bought a plug in hybrid last year so the demand here is fluid.
The solar production negates the utility supplied electricity so we end up with a credit.
The objective was to take a bill off the table every month.