Considering Upgrading.... Looking for the Goldilock's Bucket Size

[jeff9366]

while weight affects usefulness, those tractors are simply too large to be easily maneuverable on our property and too heavy for our property.

You are hampered by having operator experience only on a subcompact tractor.

As tractors increase in weight, tire size increases also. The ground pressure operating an L2501 is not a great deal less than the ground pressure operating an MX or L4701 supporting its weight on much larger tires. MX weight tractors are often employed on commercial vegetable farms, where soil compaction is anathema.

While none of us are as familiar with your land as you are, most committed writers here have owned or operated numerous tractors and offer tractor selection recommendations relative to property acreage based on years of land structuring experience and multiple tractor experience.

In Post #10 the heaviest tractor you are considering is a 2,700 pound L2501. Note that no one recommends a 2,000 pound Kubota B nor Kubota LX.....

Selling a used tractor is easy. Selling multiple light implements in order to buy heavier, wider implements for a new, heavier tractor requires a lot of time. Depreciation on implements is worse than depreciation on a tractor.

I have owned three tractors. The first a 1,900 pound Deere 750 subcompact "learner" without a Loader. The second a 2,000 pound Kubota B3300SU tractor-loader package. The third, my 3,700 pound Kubota L3560, is tractor nirvana in my north Florida conditions. Had I early read a thread philosophizing on tractor weight it would have stimulated tractor weight research and I would have omitted purchase of tractor #2. (I purchased tractor #2 seduced by the allure of increased horsepower and a factory loader.)

Consider a used tractor with sufficient weight and width for stability:

L4740 HST 4WD with LA854 Loader, HD Bucket and BH92 Backhoe for sale. 145 hours!

Kubota L4740HST 4WD w/ 145 hours and industrial tires 50 hour service completed LA854 Loader Quick-Attach Front remote valve 72” HD bucket with removable toothbar Construction Attachments adjustable pallet forks Kubota BH92 Backhoe w/ manual thumb and 16” bucket 6’ Taylor Way box blade...

www.tractorbynet.com

Kubota MX5800 - Ohio

Kubota MX5800 215 Hours Like new 60HP 4 wheel drive R4 Tires Heavy duty round back bucket with removable cutting edge Loader Level Indicator 3rd Function Kit on loader for grapple Kubota floor mat (3) sets of Kubota wheel weights 200 hour maintenance was just performed. Needs...

www.tractorbynet.com

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR
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[jeff9366]

You have never addressed the critical tractor selection issue of topography of your Georgia property.

Flat? Sloped fully or in part? Hilly fully or in part?

 

[crashz]

From where I'm sitting, it sounds like a LX or L with backhoe would be just right for what you want. But - I'll caveat that the initial post question about bucket size will never be perfect. Bucketing is the slowest, most repetitive way to move material from A to B. Soon you'll want a Cat 980 Wheel Loader.

I would consider a low cost, flat floor wagon (maybe with removable sides) to move mulch and brush on the property. If you have a truck, maybe a dump trailer. The wagon or trailer can be used to haul and contained the material, so that you scoop out of it, rather than dump it all out in one shot. Or just dump and go in case of brush.

A secondary benefit is that you will be traversing grass or soft areas much less often, and will do less damage to turf.

 

[Panik]

You have never addressed the critical tractor selection issue of topography of your Georgia property.

Flat? Sloped fully or in part? Hilly fully or in part?

Jeff, please bear with me in responding.... I appreciate and am honestly not trying to ignore your's or anyone's input here on this thread. Between life/kids/work and organizing my thoughts it can take me some time to respond.

We live along the crest of an old rise/ridge at the tail end of the Appalachian mountain chain. At least a portion of the land was old terraced farm land.... you can still see evidence of the terracing in the 7 acres of old re-growth forest on my property. The 4 acres of "yard" were roughly regraded 20 years ago when the home was constructed, and most of it is easily navigable with a rear-wheel drive zero turn, let alone the BX.

The woods are another matter and range from gently sloped to a portion that has a 10' deep x 15' wide old runoff ravine. However, I am not worried about doing any woods work with any tractor. About the only thing I have interest in accomplishing in the wooded 7 ares is to eventually put in perimeter firebreaks so as to burn on a 3-5 acre rotation. That is a long-term goal and if/when that comes to pass I some of those lines will be handline and some of it will be contracted out to a family friend with the appropriate skid/forestry mulcher.

Generally speaking I agree with your assessment about tractor weight and size..... buying reasonably more tractor than you might otherwise anticipate if you will.

Setting aside the question of costs for the moment the reason larger tractors such as an L4701 or Mx are not heavily in the mix for consideration is due to size and maneuverability. There are a number of areas on my property where the smaller frame of the Bx is a decided benefit and the size of an L4701 or MX would completely preclude their usage:

- There are a number of gates on the property sized such that a B/LX/L2501 will fit but anything wider would not. I have zero interest in re-configuring those gates to accomodate a larger piece of equipment than what they can currently fit.

- The ditch needing maintenance I have previously mentioned is on the up-slope side of the 750 feet gravel road leading to my shop. The down slope side is heavily wooded and drops off significantly. The size of the larger tractors mentioned would make ditch clearing with a combination of the backhoe and loader very difficult if not impossible. Accommodating a larger piece of equipment would involve a significant amount of brush clearing and would result on in the removal of shade trees I am unwilling to lose.

- Similarly I do have one steep slope on the property I bushhog 2-3 times a year with the BX by driving upslope and backing down. At the top of the slope are a number of screening trees and my shop is immediately adjacent to the down slope end. The BX fits rather well in this situation. A B and a Lx will fit, a L2501 may fit. I know that due to the length that a MX or L45701 will not. This is not a slope I am willing to string trim and if left to its own devices would quickly become a mix of sweet gum and volunteer pine.

- With respect to moving mulch, the Bx and its size is a handy benefit in that I am able to get the loader directly over the area to be mulched.... eliminating the need for me to do any hand spreading......

....the idea of keeping the bx and also getting a significantly TLB in order to completely meet needs is a pretty nice dream. However, with 3 kids approaching driving age I would much rather sell/trade-in the BX towards owing less should I get another piece of equipment.

From where I'm sitting, it sounds like a LX or L with backhoe would be just right for what you want. But - I'll caveat that the initial post question about bucket size will never be perfect. Bucketing is the slowest, most repetitive way to move material from A to B. Soon you'll want a Cat 980 Wheel Loader.

I would consider a low cost, flat floor wagon (maybe with removable sides) to move mulch and brush on the property. If you have a truck, maybe a dump trailer. The wagon or trailer can be used to haul and contained the material, so that you scoop out of it, rather than dump it all out in one shot. Or just dump and go in case of brush.

A secondary benefit is that you will be traversing grass or soft areas much less often, and will do less damage to turf.

Thanks for the input. In thinking about the LX or L I'm leaning more heavily towards a small L. From my perspective.... and I could be very wrong.... the LX has a somewhat higher MSRP and trades some performance (engine displacement, loader capacity, etc) for user comforts. As example, lever engaged vs pedal-clutch engaged PTO.

To be frank I'm also very attracted to the idea of a gently used B26 due to its heavier build, but have not spent much time considering it due to the potential increase in price.

I agree with you regarding never finding the perfect bucket size... that's a very slippery slope that. I do have a reasonable understanding of the interplay between tractor weight, frame strength, hp/displacement, etc and what it afford in terms of capability. Those are already quantified and I can put that information into consideration for my property and purposes.

However I can't yet quantify the volumetric differences between say a BX's 48" bucket and the 66" bucket that can come with a L2501... or a MX. If moving mulch is one of the reasons I am considering upgrading I would like to be able to consider bucket volume in my decisions making. Not that I think this is the case, but if a heaped bucket of mulch using BxEpanded's bucket extender is roughly the same as a 60" bucket load of mulch.... well that's important to me to know. I wish Kubota published dimensional specs on their bucket like what is available for W.R. Long's buckets.

I've been broadly considering buying a utility wagon and came close about a year ago when one was being sold a couple miles from the house. Didn't because the frame was too eaten up with rust. It's something that's in my mid regardless of upgrading tractors.... just been waiting for the right opportunity without having to expend too much effort.

I'm a spreadsheet guy, too. I covered 12 or 13 manufacturers and about 3-5 tractors each.

Sometimes, smaller is better. If you want to reduce time in the seat, you will want the biggest tractor that fits your land and has a price you can live with. One reason I will probably not buy Kubota is the lower capacity for similar sized frames.

You hit on the exact crux of my considerations.... buying the largest tractor I can afford that also doesn't size me out of getting into the places I am able currently. As mentioned, I'm looking at the B/LX/L2501 range as a primary point of consideration because I have a reasonable understanding that they will fit into all the spaces I need. A Mx or L4701 will definitely not, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm unwilling to consider a L33/L39 if it's both cost and utility effective.

In your spreadsheet do you have columns for entertainment and safety with multiple operators? Another reason B26 are popular rentals. Being a safe platform for my wife and father was a major model consideration.

Renting one to test and evaluate might help you? Home Depot, Uhaul, Enterprise.

B26 is 4,000#. Great loader articulation and lift.

The used one we got from a local rental auction had 50hours in 2016. About all options. Saved about $10K than new. The thumb on the backhoe was new option for us. If we had bought new probably wouldn’t have spent extra money on a thumb. Now wouldn’t have one without.

It was an evolution of different tractors over time that’s changed with our needs. Enjoy the journey.

Lol, entertainment? No, but then I did modify my BX with a home built aux power supply and custom switch box for use with front/rear lights, USB phone charger and 3pt pump sprayer.... so I'm guessing if we do get a new tractor I'll add some creature comforts.

One large part of my consideration in costs is to balance things so that at very least I come away with a tractor equipped with the hydraulics for a grapple to be added on at a later date, or preferably for the tractor to come home fully equipped with one. Similarly, if I can make it happen I would like to have a mechanical thumb on the hoe.

Unfortunately, there's not much interest from my wife in using the tractor.... It's a shame because she used to run a tractor when she was an elephant keeper at the zoo we both used to work at. I'd very much enjoy being able to do yard projects with her; however she has some health concerns that preclude her form doing much. My oldest son other hand does very much enjoy using the Bx to help me accomplish yardwork.

Thank you for giving me an understanding of what you paid for your B26. I'm keeping in my mind while going through this process and if a gently used one come available when we get ready to buy it may be the direction we head. I am very attracted to the heavier build of that model (yard grass be darned), as well as the more robust frame mounting of the backhoe. I need to add it to the spreadsheet....

Help me with something if you don't mind.....Have you taken the hoe off your B26 and used the 3pt? If so can you give me some idea of how long/complex that process is... especially as compared to say a regular B with manufacturer backhoe?

 

[jeff9366]

B26 YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=kubota+b26

B26 T-B-N ARCHIVE:

Kubota B26 site:tractorbynet.com

 

[big bubba]

see you've caught the purchase fever. no cure other than giving into the banker, unless you have that on hand
been there several times before. who knows that your future needs (or wants) will grow, so get the next size larger from your choice.
never been a big fan of Grand L, but that's my bias. much rather put that extra into hp/weight or implements.
regards,

 

[azbinder]

After reading what you are wanting to do, I too would suggest the B26 TLB. If equipped with a QA bucket, you can get it with possibly a 54" or 60" HD bucket and a 66" light duty that you could add some material to to be able to handle more mulch. Also highly recommend adding a grapple to the HD bucket and putting a thumb on the hoe. Physical size, I think, should be about the same as a light L series. It's been a while since I've been around them.

 

[jeff9366]

Kubota LX2610 Attachments​

Kubota LA535 Loader
Loader weight:	562 lbs 254 kg
Height (to pin):	84 inches 213 cm
Clearance, dumped bucket:	66.8 inches 169 cm
Dump angle:	36°
Rollback angle:	30°
Breakout force (at pin):	2245 lbs 1018 kg
Breakout force (at 500mm):	1634 lbs 741 kg
Lift to full height (at pin):	1067 lbs 483 kg
Lift to full height (at 500mm):	769 lbs 348 kg

Kubota BH77 Backhoe
Backhoe type:	Kubota BH77 Backhoe
Weight:	1105 lbs 501 kg
Transport height:	80.7 inches 204 cm
2-Foot flat digging depth:	91.8 inches 233 cm
Reach from pivot:	124.6 inches 316 cm
Loading height:	66.7 inches 169 cm
Swing Arc:	180

Kubota B26 Attachments​

Kubota Loader
Loader weight	628 lbs 284 kg
Height (to pin)	94.5 inches 240 cm
Clearance, dumped bucket	70 inches 177 cm
Dump reach	22.3 inches 56 cm
Dump angle	45°
Reach at ground	61.5 inches 156 cm
Rollback angle	46°
Breakout force (at pin)	2,344 lbs 1063 kg
Lift to full height (at pin)	1,300 lbs 589 kg
Attachment style	Two-lever Quick Coupler - SSQA
Raise time to height	3.6 s
Bucket dump time	1.8 s
Lowering time	2.4 s
Rollback time	3.4 s

Kubota Backhoe
Backhoe type	Kubota Backhoe
Digging depth	99.8 inches 253 cm
2-Foot flat digging depth	98.3 inches 249 cm
8-Foot flat digging depth	77 inches 195 cm
Reach from pivot	133.9 inches 340 cm
Loading height	77.3 inches 196 cm
Bucket force	4,211 lbs 1910 kg
Dipperstick force	2,123 lbs 962 kg

 

[Panik]

After reading what you are wanting to do, I too would suggest the B26 TLB. If equipped with a QA bucket, you can get it with possibly a 54" or 60" HD bucket and a 66" light duty that you could add some material to to be able to handle more mulch. Also highly recommend adding a grapple to the HD bucket and putting a thumb on the hoe. Physical size, I think, should be about the same as a light L series. It's been a while since I've been around them.

We are blessed, but like most have to balance wants and needs... I'm not old by any stretch of the imagination, but at 45 I'm also starting to deal with the degenerative joint impacts of having done a lot of hard manual labor, while having even less free time than when I was younger. Having a more capable tractor is both a want and need....

And you brought up something of an unvoiced hope that has been bouncing around in the back of my head. In potentially getting a more capable tractor with some form of swift-attach/SSQA capabilities.... the ability to play around with loader bucket sizes and play around with trading weight capacity for increases in volumetric capacity. The LA243 loader on our bx is pin-on and was purchased before just before that functionality was readily available for sub-compacts. It's not something I've since pursued with the Bx both because there have been other more significant priorities and because there's not a lot of capacity to work with.

Definitely planning on a mechanical thumb for the hoe. I don't think I could justify to myself the cost of a hydraulic one though. The grapple on the otherhand is something that I have been desiring since we first got the tractor.... even if for some reason were not able to get a larger tractor a grapple would be going on the Bx.

Kubota LX2610 Attachments​

Kubota LA535 Loader
Loader weight:	562 lbs 254 kg
Height (to pin):	84 inches 213 cm
Clearance, dumped bucket:	66.8 inches 169 cm
Dump angle:	36°
Rollback angle:	30°
Breakout force (at pin):	2245 lbs 1018 kg
Breakout force (at 500mm):	1634 lbs 741 kg
Lift to full height (at pin):	1067 lbs 483 kg
Lift to full height (at 500mm):	769 lbs 348 kg

Kubota BH77 Backhoe
Backhoe type:	Kubota BH77 Backhoe
Weight:	1105 lbs 501 kg
Transport height:	80.7 inches 204 cm
2-Foot flat digging depth:	91.8 inches 233 cm
Reach from pivot:	124.6 inches 316 cm
Loading height:	66.7 inches 169 cm
Swing Arc:	180

Kubota B26 Attachments​

Kubota Loader
Loader weight	628 lbs 284 kg
Height (to pin)	94.5 inches 240 cm
Clearance, dumped bucket	70 inches 177 cm
Dump reach	22.3 inches 56 cm
Dump angle	45°
Reach at ground	61.5 inches 156 cm
Rollback angle	46°
Breakout force (at pin)	2,344 lbs 1063 kg
Lift to full height (at pin)	1,300 lbs 589 kg
Attachment style	Two-lever Quick Coupler - SSQA
Raise time to height	3.6 s
Bucket dump time	1.8 s
Lowering time	2.4 s
Rollback time	3.4 s

Kubota Backhoe
Backhoe type	Kubota Backhoe
Digging depth	99.8 inches 253 cm
2-Foot flat digging depth	98.3 inches 249 cm
8-Foot flat digging depth	77 inches 195 cm
Reach from pivot	133.9 inches 340 cm
Loading height	77.3 inches 196 cm
Bucket force	4,211 lbs 1910 kg
Dipperstick force	2,123 lbs 962 kg

Jeff, sincere thanks - you answered a question I had yet to answer for myself..... I had not done any deep digging on the Kubota's quick-tach system and what if any differences there were between it and SSQA format. Oddly, I was aware that JD had a proprietary system though.

At the end of the day, any upgrade from pin-on buckets would open up a wider range of options for me. If I had a choice my preference would be SSQA and with the cost of SSQA adaptor being around 1K for a kubota tractor that is definitely a big check in the B26's column.....

There's a couple SSQA high-backed light material buckets that I've seen over the years that might work well for me needs with a larger piece of equipment.

 

[Torvy]

Be wary of the systems that add weight to get the SSQA functionality, especially on those smaller tractors. You will lessen your already limited capacity.