Please Read If You Are A Newbie Tractor Buyer

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Hello to all of you out there that are new to the tractor world. I imagine many of you have either just purchased some land or inherited some land and have many big plans on the horizon for your property. You have come here because you are looking to get information about purchasing a tractor and you have found this site showing up in many of your google search results. This is the largest online forum to discuss and talk about tractors and anything tractor related so you have come to the right place.

I want to let you know that I have been in your shoes as all of us here have at some point or another in our lives. Shopping for tractors is a BIG undertaking as you will soon find out if you haven't already and it always helps to talk with people who are experienced to help lead the way. However, I want to take a minute to share some insights with you that I wish someone had shared with me before I started my journey and I hope this will help you to advance quicker.

First off I will say that asking members for their opinions on what you should purchase for your property and needs is just that, an opinion. It is not a fact, it is not the gospel and it should be taken with a grain of salt. There are many members here who are very knowledgeable and have a lot of experience with using tractors and can certainly point out things that you may not initially spot or understand in the beginning but it should never supplement for arriving at your own conclusions. What all of you need in the beginning is an education not an opinion. Getting an opinion can not replace getting an education and getting an education takes time. There are no shortcuts to getting an education but there are tips, tricks and insights that you can learn along the way that can help fast track some of the journey. A resource for a lot of this would be threads that have already been posted discussing particular aspects of tractors that you want to know about.

The problem you are going to encounter in this journey is the lack of organized and structured information that lays out explaining these machines from start to finish. This is due to many reasons.
1. There is no book like format with reading threads.
2. The technology used in tractors varies from model to model. Some have modern technology while others have archaic technology.
3. The industry does not report or make available market share for you the consumer to observe past and present purchasing trends in respect to any specific model or brand of tractor.

Building on #3 what is available at times is the total number of tractors sold in a quarter or year within a certain HP class. Currently the under 40hp class of tractor is the most popular category of tractor by far. Another tip that I will slip in here based on research, anecdotal evidence and gut feeling is the Kubota L01/L02 series tractors are the most sold tractors in North America with John Deere's 3E series tractors coming in a distance second and then all the other brands falling somewhere in behind those two. The reason for this has to do with the number of markets Kubota and Deere are in across the U.S and the strength of the offerings that each of these two series of models makes to the buying public. You will find many threads here arguing for this brand or that brand but what it comes down to personally for you is what brands are available in your local market however you choose to define that.

Another very important aspect of tractors that is greatly overlooked and often times not realized in the beginning is weight. The reason for this mostly has to do with loaders. Whenever you pickup a substantial amount of weight in the front of your tractor you shift weight away from the back and this can cause the tractor to become unstable. This is where ballast comes into the equation and you will find endless amounts of threads here talking about weight, traction and balance. The reason being, this is one of the most tricky and dangerous aspects of ownership. If the tractor is not ballasted correctly you are in for trouble and maybe very serious, life threatening trouble depending on how unbalanced the weight of the tractor is. So proceed with caution and learn as much as you can.

In the beginning of your journey you will be excited to purchase a tractor and it will seem at times like being a kid in a candy store for adults. Tractors can be a lot of fun and with all the attachments, accessories and possibilities of use types it can make you wonder why you didn't have one sooner. This is what I call the discovery phase. However, you will eventually reach the stage of the buying process where all the brands, models, options, attachments and accessories seem endless and can make your head explode This is normal and it has happened to the best of us. This is mostly happening due to what I call a sizing problem. You have a piece of property that is so many acres big with particular features, attributes and obstacles that you have to work around and it is not always clear what tractor is the best fit for the property. Add to this challenge that loader lift capacity, PTO HP and weight are all packaged together within certain model sizes and it can seem like a daunting task or even impossible feat to figure out at times. This is where many of you become frustrated and come here looking for answers by starting threads asking for opinions. In an ideal world the tractor dealerships would let you take different model tractors home to demo until you found the perfect one to get the job done in the best and most efficient way possible but unfortunately they don't do that. So you're left stuck in the predicament that I think all of us have found ourselves in. So how do you get through this? There is no one right answer to this question but I would suggest starting by determining what your most demanding job is going to be within each use type you have planned for the tractor and then match the model of tractor that gets closest to those maximum limits. You will find that it won't be a perfect science but it will help begin the next phase of the buying process which is what I call the elimination phase.

Once you have reached the point where you understand what size and class of tractor you need you will find that all the brands offer the same or similar model types within that size and class. The biggest differences being features and creature comforts. Pay particularly close attention to the transmission choices as this and PTO HP is what all the manufacturers set their pricing by. You will on average pay about $1500-$2000 more for a hydrostat over a gear drive tractor. I think you will find that most buyers don't think the extra savings for gear drive is worth the trade off in ease of use and efficiency of the hydrostat especially with loader work. This is the final phase of the selection process but it will be another mountain to climb as you have many things to consider such as:
1.Features
2.Build Quality
3.Reliability
4.Warranty
5.Price
6.Dealer
7.After Sales Support
8.Resale/Trade In Value

All of this will require a great deal of comparative market analysis and research. You will not learn this overnight and there is no member on this forum that can suffice for or replace the hard work, time and effort that will be required of you to do this. So please consider before starting another thread on this forum asking for member opinions if you have done all the necessary research first. If you haven't then get back to work reading the threads, studying the pages, making your own personal observations and asking questions where appropriate. I wish all of you well in your shopping journeys and I will always try to be a resource for help and advice when and where I can be.

 

[Torvy]

Trade in value is worthless in and of itself. A more useful value is the % of purchase price you get back upon sale, all else being equal. When age, wear and condition are equal, there is essentially little to no difference.

In other words, higher trade in value is just a function of higher initial price.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Trade in value is worthless in and of itself. A more useful value is the % of purchase price you get back upon sale, all else being equal. When age, wear and condition are equal, there is essentially little to no difference.

In other words, higher trade in value is just a function of higher initial price.

Thanks for pointing that out. I used the wrong term. I should of said resale value. Correcting it now.

Update: I decided to use both terms to cover both bases as in some circumstances they might get a pretty good trade in value depending on the market and dealer circumstances.

 

[thclimer]

Lots of good points.

I would just stress that with all the new tech/computers on new tractors today your dealer support is going to be very important if you have an issue, as that little issue may just require a computer to be connect to your tractor to be resolved. The older tractors were more easily serviced by do it yourselfer's.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

I have been retracing all the steps in my mind the last week that I took when I began my tractor shopping journey 3 years ago to the point I have gotten to now where I know I have found the tractor that is right for me. I have often been questioning why it took me so long to get here and what I would of or could of done differently had I known then what I know now. Not an easy question to answer but a worthwhile one to ask. Here is my take away:

1. I was trying to make decisions on information instead of experience. What I should of done is identified who all the brands were within an hour of me, collected enough information on each brand and model to be able to have an intelligent conversation with each dealer and then scheduled some time to go see and demo each brand and class of tractor that I was interested in. Where I went wrong was I was trying to do it all in my head by reading all the reviews, listening to all the opinions and concerns and then drawing risk profiles on all the brands without paying all of them a visit and taking a demo. Had I done this I probably would have found the right solution a year earlier. Because of this it lead to

2. Evaluation bias which is what got in the way of me being fully objective throughout this whole process. The reason this happened is because I was trying to evaluate too many factors too early into the process which caused me to eliminate the brand of tractor that turned out to be right for me. As I had stated in my first post above, there is an elimination phase in the buying process but sometimes things eliminate themselves without there being need for a comparative analysis. Examples of this could be you take a demo and you don't like the machine or you can't afford it or you don't like the dealer. If any of this is true then other factors like warranty, long term parts support and resale value don't even matter because other factors eliminated the choice before it could become criteria worth considering.

3. Be careful you don't get ahead of yourself. Though warranty, long term parts support and resale value are all important they shouldn't be considered too soon into the buying process. Wait until you have identified which tractor is right for you and then take the necessary time to review those aspects. By the time you determine which brand and model of tractor is right for you none of those aspects may be of any concern.

It's getting late and my brain is getting tired so I will hit the pause button here. If I can think of anything else I will update this post...

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

A recent discussion I had with members on here about which of two tractor brands the OP should choose led me to what I think is my final conclusion on this whole subject. I will repeat it here as I stated it there:

When you are shopping for a tractor you have to look at the whole picture. You can't just look at the tractor or just look at the loader or just look at the dealer or just look at the price. It's the whole package/picture that you have to consider when you are making your decision. Ideally you want your purchase to check off as many boxes as possible in the total picture of all things to consider. To understand all the things to consider I would divide that picture into two categories: Hard value versus soft value. The hard value is everything that pertains to the tractor itself such as: Specs, features, power, size, build quality, reliability etc. The soft value is everything that pertains to the support of the tractor such as: Warranty, insurance, service, after sales support, parts availability, dealer relations, manufacturer relations, proximity of dealer etc. The challenge is to try to get all that together as much as possible.

What you will find if you take a step back from this thread and consider all the members opinions that have been given is in different markets different brands become the best choice based on that total picture I outlined above. For most of the members here Kubota usually wins out but for other members the other brands won out and that was all due to the unique circumstances of their local markets. That's why these type of threads never have one right universal answer. What is right for you all depends on where you live, what your choices are and what you can afford.

 

[workinonit]

Based on most of the threads I read regarding choosing a new tractor, the most important factor in buying a tractor is weight.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Based on most of the threads I read regarding choosing a new tractor, the most important factor in buying a tractor is weight.

Thanks for the reminder Jeff9366

 

[Diggin It]

I almost never consider sale/resale/trade-in value as I almost never buy anything with the intention or even vague thought of ever selling it. I buy it to use it and I usually use it until it dies and has no value beyond scrap.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

I almost never consider sale/resale/trade-in value as I almost never buy anything with the intention or even vague thought of ever selling it. I buy it to use it and I usually use it until it dies and has no value beyond scrap.

I'm in the same camp partner. I'm buying it and driving it until the wheels fall off.

 

[Hay Dude]

Trade in value is worthless in and of itself. A more useful value is the % of purchase price you get back upon sale, all else being equal. When age, wear and condition are equal, there is essentially little to no difference.

In other words, higher trade in value is just a function of higher initial price.

I have found with almost every used tractors I have purchased, it has sold for more than I paid for it.

 

[ArlyA]

I almost never consider sale/resale/trade-in value as I almost never buy anything with the intention or even vague thought of ever selling it. I buy it to use it and I usually use it until it dies and has no value beyond scrap.

You got that right. I buy tools to use, not necessarily sell later.

 

[workinonit]

Since I was born we had at least one tractor and usually multiple. So I've always had one. When I bought my first tractor of my own the only decision was what size. 5310 or 5510. I bought the 5310. When I sold that one 20 years later the only decision was M or E. I selected the E.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

In this next update I want to dispel two myths that this industry peddles to entice consumers to spend more of their money at the time of sale. The first is zero percent financing.

There is NO such thing as free financing. It doesn't exist period! To call financing free is just a lie. This is just a deceptive business practice by the industry and manufacturers to entice you the consumer into spending more money at the time of sale because you have been fooled into thinking you are getting something for free. What is actually happening is the dealers have rolled the financing costs into the price of the equipment where it is hidden from you and you don't see it. If the industry had more integrity they would refer to it as "interest included" not zero percent. In many cases the interest is much lower compared to what an outside lender would charge you and the term of the loan can be longer IF you qualify. That's another little truth that is not disclosed to you in the marketing. You have to qualify for the incentives that they are advertising. A lot of people will never qualify for 72 or 84 months of financing.

I will add to this by saying the manufacturers financing is offered at wholesale rates because what they're selling you is at retail rates. That's the only reason/incentive behind them giving you low rate financing. What they give up with lower financing rates they more then make up for in higher profit margins on the equipment and options you are financing.

The other myth I want to debunk is it is better to purchase options at the time of sale. Lets get something out of the way right now. You don't save any money purchasing options at the time of sale. Options which are a combination of parts and service are sold to you at retail prices. This is one of the main sources of revenue for a dealership's parts and service department. Options are pure gravy for any dealer. This is why you need to price the options out along with the tractor itself when you are getting multiple quotes. The options can vary significantly in price from dealer to dealer.

 

[Fixastuff]

Have you got bought the perfect tractor yet?

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Have you got bought the perfect tractor yet?

There is no perfect tractor or brand. I think the closest to perfect any tractor ever came was the old Fords. To answer your question, I am in the middle of buying a tractor now.

 

[Torvy]

In technical terms, TINSTAAFL. There is no such thing as a free lunch. It is true that all business costs are ultimately passed on to consumers (why business taxes are no more than a hidden tax on consumers). All forms of advertising expenses are rolled into the overall prices for everyone. Same reason some grocery stores can sell milk for $1 a gallon. Sure, they lose money on that gallon, but most people buy other stuff, too.

In practical terms, free financing is absolutely a thing. Will someone pay for it? Sure. Good credit is always required to get the best deals. Credit affects the price of your insurance, too. It is in the fine print, but 'on available credit' is the out. They legally cannot advertise a rate without a certain percentage actually getting it.

The way government regulations affect the lending industry, they need to keep a mix of credit in their overall loan portfolio. Many people with good credit can forgo a loan of they want. Lenders offer 0% to attract those high credit buyers to use credit. The lender loses money on those individuals, but makes up for it by having greater ability to loan more money to people with less than perfect credit. Simply put, if I make 100k loans to 2 people, I can loan one with 800+ credit at 0% and then can risk the guy with a 600 score at 10%. Effectively, I have 200k loaned out at 5%, but with the risk of a 700 score. I could just loan only to people with 700 scores, but a) that reduces my potential market and b) the government requires lenders to lend money to people they otherwise would not.

Right now, dealers are getting away with cash discounts. As the market tightens back up, people with excellent credit will get that discount and 0%. A little different in the auto finance world as dealerships can add in interest (usually up to 2% points). Even then, in a competitive market, excellent credit consumers will just walk. Ultimately, lenders need excellent credit customers more than vice versa.

So yes, in the aggregate it is not 'free'. If it is free to me, I am fine with them making up the difference on someone else.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

In technical terms, TINSTAAFL. There is no such thing as a free lunch. It is true that all business costs are ultimately passed on to consumers (why business taxes are no more than a hidden tax on consumers). All forms of advertising expenses are rolled into the overall prices for everyone. Same reason some grocery stores can sell milk for $1 a gallon. Sure, they lose money on that gallon, but most people buy other stuff, too.

In practical terms, free financing is absolutely a thing. Will someone pay for it? Sure. Good credit is always required to get the best deals. Credit affects the price of your insurance, too. It is in the fine print, but 'on available credit' is the out. They legally cannot advertise a rate without a certain percentage actually getting it.

The way government regulations affect the lending industry, they need to keep a mix of credit in their overall loan portfolio. Many people with good credit can forgo a loan of they want. Lenders offer 0% to attract those high credit buyers to use credit. The lender loses money on those individuals, but makes up for it by having greater ability to loan more money to people with less than perfect credit. Simply put, if I make 100k loans to 2 people, I can loan one with 800+ credit at 0% and then can risk the guy with a 600 score at 10%. Effectively, I have 200k loaned out at 5%, but with the risk of a 700 score. I could just loan only to people with 700 scores, but a) that reduces my potential market and b) the government requires lenders to lend money to people they otherwise would not.

Right now, dealers are getting away with cash discounts. As the market tightens back up, people with excellent credit will get that discount and 0%. A little different in the auto finance world as dealerships can add in interest (usually up to 2% points). Even then, in a competitive market, excellent credit consumers will just walk. Ultimately, lenders need excellent credit customers more than vice versa.

So yes, in the aggregate it is not 'free'. If it is free to me, I am fine with them making up the difference on someone else.

In regards to the tractor world I think what you're saying is the time horizon is what determines the rate percentage that the consumer will be paying.

 

[IndyJay]

... Same reason some grocery stores can sell milk for $1 a gallon. Sure, they lose money on that gallon, but most people buy other stuff, too...

That is why you often see these specials include something like "Limit two per customer" or similar.

 

[TimberFarm]

I would disagree that that paying for options at time of sale costs more.
It is cheaper to get those heated/cooled seats (substitute whatever you want here) installed at the factory than to buy a "plain Jane" and then order the seats from the parts dept. and have them remove the existing and install the new.