High fuel cost and wood

[RolandW]

It seems like its a double edged sword so to speak. Wood has its negatives for sure, I get my wood delivered by the whole semi load and when that gets too expensive, our state/county has a program where we can get up to 6 cord a year free if we go do the work. When I buy semi load fulls of wood, its 20 cord plus loads that last me 5 to 6 years. The heat pump system, like you said, is crazy expensive but the electric costs are low, for now??? what about the projected costs when everyone is using electric vehicles, electric furnaces, electric dryers, and all sorts of electric appliances....electricity is sure to rise. Then you become dependent on just one energy source with no backup. That might work in your area but here in the Yoop where it gets mighty cold in the interior...I can't do that. We have plenty of wood, its a renewable resource here. My other house I built was less insulated, larger, 1700 sq' and that too I built my own wood boiler in addition to the propane boiler to lessen the cost, in that house, I averaged 5 cord a yr INCLUDING domestic hot water (system already had an indirect fired water heater). Cost to run the circulator pumps was about 10 bucks a month. Some systems work good in some areas. Im just worried about the future, electric where my new retirement home is, is still higher than most of the other places in the Yoop, out there its UPPCO, thats why I tried to limit how much electricity I would use. Glad your system works for you tho'. Its nice to share ideas.

Yep, electricity cost certainly is a worry, what with all the stupidity being pushed by politicians (and, even more disturbingly, the baffling willingness of so many people to accept it). I didn't mention that we did keep the wood furnace. The return air is no longer connected to it, but it still would function fairly well, I think. We have had an onslaught of Emerald Ash Borer. Our property looks like a war zone with all the dead trees, so there is plenty to cut without the danger of felling them. Btw, the heat pump also provides all of our domestic hot water. It has a conventional electric backup element, but I leave that circuit breaker turned off to make sure it never kicks in. For us air conditioning is a major consideration. Obviously, living in a climate where that's not important would make ground-source less attractive. We have the worst of both worlds here in the Midwest: occasionally below zero in winter and 100+ in summer – with smothering humidity.

 

[51allis]

It isn't always as simple as "my costs have gone up, so my prices have to go up." Supply and demand come into play, and you have to find the right balance for your situation.
We have a small farm in Central NY. We get the vast majority of our revenue from selling vegetables on a roadside stand, and horse hay from our barn. We've been selling vegetables for 60 years, and have always had about 99% going to the end user. We've been selling hay for even longer, originally selling by the tractor trailer load to someone for resale, but for the last 14 years that has also been going directly to the end user. (When the economy hit the skids in 2008, we quickly discovered the error of relying on a single customer. He lost his customer for our hay, so we lost him.)
With retail,we can't set our prices solely on what our input costs are. Hay is one example. There are only so many hay customers out there, and you are competing with other producers for the same customers. If it's a good year and there's lots of hay around, you can't charge as much as when hay is short. You don't make any money on hay that stays in the barn.
It's even worse for vegetables, because they are perishable. Leftover hay, properly stored, can be sold the next year. Vegetables have to be sold within a few days of picking them. You can't hope to sell them the next season. If your prices are higher than the public is willing to pay, your produce winds up being a money loser instead of a money maker.
Balance is the key in all things.

This is similar to what I was doing, I would make hay every year and sell it to cover my property taxes, Im zoned AG (Agricultural) where the taxes are low and will probably go back to doing that because I made small bales, not the big round ones or big square ones, women loved the small bales so they could lift em and move em around as needed. We plan to do as much "self sufficiency" as possible. When I look at your situation, it brings back a discussion I had with another friend. We had talked about how our current money is backed by "full faith in the Federal Gov'" etc. and that we no longer use the gold standard as a backing. Although he said gold backing the dollar was better, I begged to differ with him. I say land and the produce it can grow is whats more important than all of the gold in the world. If, in a SHTF scenario, and someone came to a farmers door willing to trade gold for that farmers/homesteaders last bit of food, I bet that farmer/homesteader will tell that person their gold is worthless, same goes with diamonds etc. Guess it just depends on what a person values the most. Unfortunately for most of us, money is a necessary evil hahaha, but like you said "Balance is the key". Each person needs to figure out how to survive in their situation/location.

 

[Bill Guenthner]

When our house was built in 1989 we put a wood furnace next to the electric one in the basement and connected it to the ductwork. We burned a lot of wood until about eight years ago when we had a ground-source heat pump installed. I haven't cut a stick of wood since that for heat, and our electric bills in the winter are lower than they were before. Where the system really shines is for air conditioning. Now we keep the house as cool as we want it in the summer, and our bill is rarely much over $100 even with two refrigerators and a chest-type freezer running. Some months it costs almost as much to run the dehumidifier in my shop building as it does to power the house.
I bring this up only because I think it's something for a wood burner to consider if your current system is close to needing replacement, and like me you're getting to the age where the always-risky adventure of cutting down dead trees has lost its charm. These systems are crazy expensive, but in our case we got a third of it back at tax time. Not sure whether that federal credit is still available.

Those ground heat systems are even better. If it were possible to do that here I would have. Too much rock.

 

[51allis]

Yep, electricity cost certainly is a worry, what with all the stupidity being pushed by politicians (and, even more disturbingly, the baffling willingness of so many people to accept it). I didn't mention that we did keep the wood furnace. The return air is no longer connected to it, but it still would function fairly well, I think. We have had an onslaught of Emerald Ash Borer. Our property looks like a war zone with all the dead trees, so there is plenty to cut without the danger of felling them. Btw, the heat pump also provides all of our domestic hot water. It has a conventional electric backup element, but I leave that circuit breaker turned off to make sure it never kicks in. For us air conditioning is a major consideration. Obviously, living in a climate where that's not important would make ground-source less attractive. We have the worst of both worlds here in the Midwest: occasionally below zero in winter and 100+ in summer – with smothering humidity.

The nice thing is you still have your woodstove, in a worst case scenario, you could power it up if need be, thats being smart by not fully getting rid of it. 100+ summer, ouch haha, we haven't had a good hot week in a long time, I think last year we hit the low 90's for 2 or 3 days and that was it....but our winters are rough and seem to long for some. We always joke about the 2 seasons we have here, swatting (skeeter season) n shoveling....

 

[Hay Dude]

This is similar to what I was doing, I would make hay every year and sell it to cover my property taxes, Im zoned AG (Agricultural) where the taxes are low and will probably go back to doing that because I made small bales, not the big round ones or big square ones, women loved the small bales so they could lift em and move em around as needed. We plan to do as much "self sufficiency" as possible. When I look at your situation, it brings back a discussion I had with another friend. We had talked about how our current money is backed by "full faith in the Federal Gov'" etc. and that we no longer use the gold standard as a backing. Although he said gold backing the dollar was better, I begged to differ with him. I say land and the produce it can grow is whats more important than all of the gold in the world. If, in a SHTF scenario, and someone came to a farmers door willing to trade gold for that farmers/homesteaders last bit of food, I bet that farmer/homesteader will tell that person their gold is worthless, same goes with diamonds etc. Guess it just depends on what a person values the most. Unfortunately for most of us, money is a necessary evil hahaha, but like you said "Balance is the key". Each person needs to figure out how to survive in their situation/location.

As a farmer, I would caution the making of small bales to make money. It is my opinion, but with a huge recession looming and their “great reset“ on the horizon, the days of people owning hobby horses are shrinking. Animal Husbandry, especially equine in general as a way of life, is way down at least in MY area. And my area is/was PRIME equine country. I notice considerably fewer horse people. Its an expensive hobby and people will be shorter on money for the foreseeable future. The middle class numbers are shrinking fast. More people in lower class earnings means less horses.
I dont know how much land you hay, and its none of my business, but bigger bales may be a better pursuit as theres still a need for beef, until the fake beef takes over…you know….the “impossible burger”??? Lol Im definitely looking at soybeans and wheat as alternatives now.
The times are definitely changing.

 

[51allis]

As a farmer, I would caution the making of small bales to make money. It is my opinion, but with a huge recession looming and their “great reset“ on the horizon, the days of people owning hobby horses are shrinking. Animal Husbandry, especially equine in general as a way of life, is way down at least in MY area. And my area is/was PRIME equine country. I notice considerably fewer horse people. Its an expensive hobby and people will be shorter on money for the foreseeable future. The middle class numbers are shrinking fast. More people in lower class earnings means less horses.
I dont know how much land you hay, and its none of my business, but bigger bales may be a better pursuit as theres still a need for beef, until the fake beef takes over…you know….the “impossible burger”??? Lol Im definitely looking at soybeans and wheat as alternatives now.
The times are definitely changing.

Im on small 20 acre farm plat, I only sold my small bales to horse people because I didnt have my own animals. We used to have horses too but I got mad because I wanted to eat the horses and my better half wouldn't go for it, so we got rid of em for now. I've always held the mentality that if you can't or won't eat the animal in rough times, then its a useless animal and its dragging on a persons resources. Many out there regard horses as taboo when you mention eating it, but the U.S. used to eat horse meat and every time I see a horse I look at its hind quarters and just wonder what it tastes like. Canada eats horse meat if im not mistaken. But ill probably still make small bales and thats because I dont have a big farm spread and the small balers are cheaper to find. I currently have just an old NH 68 Baler, old but works. Thanks for the info tho', I learn a lot from posters and their ideas.

 

[RolandW]

Too much rock.

Rocky here too. Our house sits on solid limestone. For our system they drilled five wells, 180 feet deep. It was more expensive than a horizontal field would have been, but not a lot. We are fortunate to have an HVAC contractor right in our neighborhood who has a lot of knowledge and experience with ground-source.

 

[Bill Guenthner]

As a farmer, I would caution the making of small bales to make money. It is my opinion, but with a huge recession looming and their “great reset“ on the horizon, the days of people owning hobby horses are shrinking. Animal Husbandry, especially equine in general as a way of life, is way down at least in MY area. And my area is/was PRIME equine country. I notice considerably fewer horse people. Its an expensive hobby and people will be shorter on money for the foreseeable future. The middle class numbers are shrinking fast. More people in lower class earnings means less horses.
I dont know how much land you hay, and its none of my business, but bigger bales may be a better pursuit as theres still a need for beef, until the fake beef takes over…you know….the “impossible burger”??? Lol Im definitely looking at soybeans and wheat as alternatives now.
The times are definitely changing.

Yep. Money is going to get real tight. What little discretionary money people had is getting absorbed into food, fuel and mortgage interest. I priced a barn, they want 2x what they were quoting 3 years ago. No thanks, I’ll keep my powder dry.

 

[Bill Guenthner]

Rocky here too. Our house sits on solid limestone. For our system they drilled five wells, 180 feet deep. It was more expensive than a horizontal field would have been, but not a lot. We are fortunate to have an HVAC contractor right in our neighborhood who has a lot of knowledge and experience with ground-source.

Sounds great. I don’t think the HVAC companies around here even know what a ground heat system is.

 

[tjandrews]

This is similar to what I was doing, I would make hay every year and sell it to cover my property taxes, Im zoned AG (Agricultural) where the taxes are low and will probably go back to doing that because I made small bales, not the big round ones or big square ones, women loved the small bales so they could lift em and move em around as needed. We plan to do as much "self sufficiency" as possible. When I look at your situation, it brings back a discussion I had with another friend. We had talked about how our current money is backed by "full faith in the Federal Gov'" etc. and that we no longer use the gold standard as a backing. Although he said gold backing the dollar was better, I begged to differ with him. I say land and the produce it can grow is whats more important than all of the gold in the world. If, in a SHTF scenario, and someone came to a farmers door willing to trade gold for that farmers/homesteaders last bit of food, I bet that farmer/homesteader will tell that person their gold is worthless, same goes with diamonds etc. Guess it just depends on what a person values the most. Unfortunately for most of us, money is a necessary evil hahaha, but like you said "Balance is the key". Each person needs to figure out how to survive in their situation/location.

My brother and I are the third generation of the family to own and operate this farm. We grew up here, and have no intention of leaving.
However, for the past five years or so, we keep getting these postcards from real estate brokers telling us that they'd be happy to sell our farm for us if we were of a mind. So far, they've all gone into the trash.