Watch out for bicycles too.

[Jstpssng]

I'll repeat it again, I would rather have them ride right down the center of the lane, than to suddenly with no warning or intelligence, swerve over and "take the lane" as I approach. If you're riding down the right side of the lane, and I see you doing so, I'm (as will anyone) going to assume that is where you are going to continue to ride. I will factor that into my judgement on how to proceed, and how and where to pass you.

Suddenly spazzing out and swerving into the center of the lane is not something I'm going to expect you to do.

Amen! In many (most?) states motorists are required to give bicyclists and pedestrians 3 feet. If you suddenly zoom from one side of the lane to the other, you might get smacked.

 

[civilian]

This is why it's good to compare notes. That was my tale; but you left out the fact that there was 8 inches of snow in the road and motorists had been sharing the center wheel track; pulling out if they met somebody coming from the other direction.
He was running up that center track. If you've ever driven in that kind of snow you know that sometimes things don't go as planned. By law I am required to give him 3 feet; I chose to exceed that and leave the road.

Whatever the circumstances, I can't rationalise that a runner deserves an entire 2 lane road, any more than a motorist does.

I kept the snow out of my discussion purposely. I was just trying to talk about the aspect of the road crown, and gravel size in relation to my ankles while running. I agree, running down the middle of the road is not smart. Jon

 

[CobyRupert]

People going to hate me for saying this, but…

On rural roads, where cars are rare, there’s a safety advantage to walking down the middle of the road, especially at night:
When a car approaches, you only have to shift a couple feet to the left or right (10’ is better) to be in the opposite lane (or shoulder) away from the car instead of being on the same side hoping they see you, or pinned against a guard rail blinded by their headlights and just a couple feet away from them when they buzz by.

I can’t be convinced otherwise.

 

[Jstpssng]

People going to hate me for saying this, but…

On rural roads, where cars are rare, there’s a safety advantage to walking down the middle of the road, especially at night:
When a car approaches, you only have to shift a couple feet to the left or right (10’ is better) to be in the opposite lane (or shoulder) away from the car instead of being on the same side hoping they see you, or pinned against a guard rail blinded by their headlights and just a couple feet away from them when they buzz by.

I can’t be convinced otherwise.

That's your choice. I always carry a flashlight at night, and am well out of the road if a vehicle comes along.

 

[CobyRupert]

That's your choice. I always carry a flashlight at night, and am well out of the road if a vehicle comes along.

Yes, carry a flashlight, and reflective clothing. My point is it’s safer on the opposite side of the road away from the car and it’s a shorter walk to that side from the middle (well, 50% of the time it is anyways. The other 50% you’re already there!).

 

[CalG]

It would be of interest to check through the accident stats. Those pesky "left turns from the right lane" are all to frequent when I'm on the motor bike. and those "Left turns into oncoming traffic are BRUTAL".

Two summers ago I had a driver pull across (left turn) in front of me, I had to stop so short the front end went out about 5 feet from the guys bumper. bike down, me standing over it, one foot on the road, the other on the upright peg. The freaking driver just smiled and drove off! Oh, I do dislike that sort of responsibility.

We all need to take responsibility. Motor vehicle accidents are a real killer!
When is the last time you read about a fatal accident that envolved two two wheeled vehicles that didn't have a "cage" doing the dirty? Motorbike? Maybe at Loudon or Sturgis , Bicycles? NEVER (can't say I've heard of one.)

eta

Anyone here familiar with SMIDSY?

It's a Brit term used by bikers there.

Sorry Mate, I Didn't See You.

As they drive off!

 

[Jstpssng]

Yes, carry a flashlight, and reflective clothing. My point is it’s safer on the opposite side of the road away from the car and it’s a shorter walk to that side from the middle (well, 50% of the time it is anyways. The other 50% you’re already there!).

I understand what you say in principle. However, when I was growing up some kids were taught to get on the other side of the road when a car came and we were on our bicycles. Swerving across the road like that can be discerning for the driver at the very least.
I already mentioned this once yet it's worth repeating...

I don't do slow passes. I only will go by if I know that I have room to do so, and can give you most of the lane.
Several years ago I was coming out of the woods and came upon two kids on one bike going the same direction in my lane, which a coworker had just passed. I slowed and pulled into the other lane... just as they switched to the other side of the road, oblivious that I was there. I had a clear line of sight and it's just luck that I had slowed down; the only reason I didn't hit them is because I don't trust kids on bikes.

By all the rules of the road those kids should be dead. If not for my normal paranoia around bicyclists because they are prone to do stupid things, (although they certainly don't have THAT market cornered) I had slowed down to nearly nothing. My coworker got on the CB to make sure that I hadn't hit them; it was that close, and that stupid.
>
A couple of days ago it was mentioned that when pedaling, a cyclist often can't hear what's behind him. I've known people to blow their horns at them which is discouraged at best, as well as a good way to get a one finger wave. Yet being aware of what's behind you can make a big difference in your safety.
>
I always find discussions like this to be interesting as it gives different perspectives.
Years ago I was coming home late at night after working 2 jobs. A motorcyclist came flying up from behind and passed me, cutting me off as he pulled in between me and the car in front... which was about to make a left turn. He slammed on the brakes and I had to brake hard to keep from hitting him; after getting under control I looked in my mirror to see that another bike was about to climb onto my bumper. (To this day I don't know if the smoke rolling up in my taillights was from my tires or his.) I had already downshifted so I cut the wheel, dumped the clutch and stomped on the gas to pull up beside the bike in front, giving the other rider room to regain control at which point he gunned it out around me and they both took off again. I couldn't do that today; my reflexes are slower, and an AT just isn't responsive enough to downshift that quickly. (Plus with ABS I probably would have hit the first bike anyways.)
>
I related that experience a few years ago and another TBN member told me that I was at fault.

 

[SuperiorLakeEffect]

All I was trying to point out was that was almost certain suicide to make such an unexpected move that most sane people (and most drivers) wouldn't be expecting them to make.

This is something that pretty much all of the literature on safe bicycling stresses immensely- cyclists need to ride as predictably as possible around cars and avoid sudden moves that drivers can't react to in time.

 

[dodge man]

On the subject of “taking the entire lane”. I will do that on occasion but only when a car is not close to me. An example would be I’m turning left at a stop sign.

 

[CobyRupert]

Couple years ago I bought a “rear view mirror” that mounts on my bike helmet. It’s the best thing ever. You can see whose coming.

The problem with relying on sound is, there’s quiet cars.

The biggest danger, especially on rural roads with little traffic, and I still have to be aware of this with the rear view mirror, is you only see and hear the first car and think the danger is over once it goes past and don’t realize there is a second vehicle. Don’t make the mistake of thinking you can shift away from hugging the edge of the road. One could argue this is a reason to not hug the edge of the road when a car approaches.

Often when driving a vehicle and approaching a bike I’m tempted to honk horn to let them know I’m coming. However, it seems if you’re too close when you do this, you’re being rude or aggressive. I wish it wasn’t interpreted like this as it seems safer. There’s something about the sound of American horns that seem more aggressive than European ones.

 

[Redlands Okie]

One thing I am seeing in real life and apparently some in this thread is that bike riders are hard to see. If the bike rider is seen then everyone has time to react. Hunters have to wear orange hats and vest in pretty remote locations. Huge farm tractors have to have the large reflective triangles and in many areas strobe or blinking hazard lights. And they use them. Yet very few of the bikers I see in my area have the lights or reflectors they are supposed to have. Very few wear clothing thats easy to see at a distance. Yet they get upset at vehicles that do not give them room.

If your not seen then its hard to avoid you. It’s that simple.


As far as the horn being used to make a bike rider aware that a vehicle is approaching, its illegal to honk near a bike rider in Oklahoma. Seems silly to limit ways to make bikers aware that a vehicle is coming around.

 

[dodge man]

My newest ride is an e bike. It’s still requires you to pedal and there are various levels of assist you can dial up. I use an app that gives me my average speed. I only ride about 2 to 3 mph faster with the e bike because I keep the assist dialed back. The issue I have when going into a head wind I’m going probably 6 mph faster into the wind. The wind noise can be bad. I had a pickup honk coming up behind me one day and he honked. I liked the fact that he did, but he was behind me quite a bit when he did it so it didn’t scare me.

I also have a rear view mirror on my handle bar end that helps but sometimes you don’t check often enough.

 

[Code54]

I find the handlebar mirrors on my drop bars to work but not all that well. They are low on the bike and are more like a car stick on spot mirror. It can difficult to judge distance with them so I mostly use them to see if I notice anyone close then alway look over my shoulder if I am turning or planning to more out into the lane to avoid something on the side of the road. I like when she one gives me a short beep of the horn to let me know they are going to go around me. I alway wave "thank you" when they do (with all of my hand NOT one finger)

Our biggest problem around here is a lot of the roads dont have any shoulder and often drop into a ditch (often several feet deep), add to that it is not uncommon to have slips where the edge of the breaks away and falls into the ditch line. It does make riding a bit more challenging.

 

[kenmbz]

I agree , lights make a big difference and I try to use them on the bicycle.
The horn is a problem in that it could startle the rider, rather than warn them.

Try sneaking up on someone using a chainsaw with an airhorn

Most of our roads have no shoulder like by Code54. So riding to the side is difficult. And we are very hilly so line of sight is an issue. Same with people walking in the street with dogs/prams etc.

It can be nerve racking, but being from both the driver and the cycling side. We all should just do our best.
I find cell phone users the biggest issue. And cyclists that don't follow road rules the second.

 

[CobyRupert]

I use a mirror like this. It looks goofy as heck, but it’s my life on the line so I don’t care.
Plus it’s easy to slide out of the zip ties and store when I’m on a dedicated bike trail
I’ve tried the handlebar mounted ones. They seem like such a narrow small view, it’s seems they’re always aimed at the wrong spot, especially when roads curve or have hills, or if you’re turning, and by the time the car is close enough to see in the mirror it’s too late.
With a helmet mount, you can turn your head to see exactly where you want or to get a sweeping view.

I’m not one of them “dress up” bikers that you find in the biking and motorcycle world. Some clothing has functionality, but most times it’s just a uniform to signal their status to others. I find the safety shirts with the super reflective stripes a highway flagman would wear to be the best when biking. Cheaper too.

 

[bigtiller]

I kept the snow out of my discussion purposely. I was just trying to talk about the aspect of the road crown, and gravel size in relation to my ankles while running. I agree, running down the middle of the road is not smart. Jon

My knees are like your ankles, they balk when the road isn't somewhat close to level. I only had a quarter mile of road to walk with a steep crown that swerved form side to side. So I did too, staying on the most level portion.

Now I walk inside the tin shed with it's smooth level surface. And if I get hot, I turn on the fans to make my own breeze. Yesterday it was 12 degrees and very windy outside but it was a calm 46 degrees inside.

 

[dodge man]

You can see the mirror on my left handlebars, it’s convex so things have to get fairly close to see anything but it helps. You can also see my lights, the one on my bag flashes and the one below it is always on with the bike. My helmet is lime green and I wear a class III surveyors vest.

 

[ArlyA]

The only mirrors that worked for us are the steel wire made one than goes on your eye glasses. They bend but don't break. They stay adjusted, are as hight as your eyes are and you can turn you head to see more of whats behind you. Third-eye mirrors might be the brand.

 

[CobyRupert]

Hmm…I wonder if there’s a market for a rear view camera or motion detector, etc.. that bluetooths or is wired to a handlebar mounted smartphone / gps tracking screen / simple warning light, etc.. that would provide rider with information of what is behind them.

 

[Jstpssng]

On the subject of “taking the entire lane”. I will do that on occasion but only when a car is not close to me. An example would be I’m turning left at a stop sign.

If you're travelling in that part of the lane and somebody comes up behind you, you are completely in your rights. It's the jumping all over the lane which causes problems as we can't tell what you're about to do next.