Strike at Deere plants in the US, more supply chain shortage to come

[ultrarunner]

BUT good old Henry Ford fought the unions tooth and nail before he caved in.

Yep... and to his own probably wouldn't have but people are not always rational or values are different.

Someone frugal by nature with immense wealth could just as well locked the doors...

 

[slckeys]

Please enlighten us with a good example of when the Union made a positive difference for the company and consumer.

There is no definitive example exactly I can think of off hand, but you get employees that consider staying long term and with that comes employees that do want the best for the company because they want to stay and keep a steady, good paying job with benefits and perks. They(the employee) will bend over backwards to help customers. Which in return keeps the customers returning because of the positive experience. Customer service and personal experience goes a long way for customers in my career. The union makes me appreciate what I have and can provide my family in every way imaginable from working the job I have. I could work at a non union shop doubt the same thing, and know for a fact, the gratitude would not be the same from both employer and customer. I truly and thoroughly enjoy my job and career.

 

[sea2summit]

There is no definitive example exactly I can think of off hand, but you get employees that consider staying long term and with that comes employees that do want the best for the company because they want to stay and keep a steady, good paying job with benefits and perks. They(the employee) will bend over backwards to help customers. Which in return keeps the customers returning because of the positive experience. Customer service and personal experience goes a long way for customers in my career. The union makes me appreciate what I have and can provide my family in every way imaginable from working the job I have. I could work at a non union shop doubt the same thing, and know for a fact, the gratitude would not be the same from both employer and customer. I truly and thoroughly enjoy my job and career.

Wow. That is the epitome of brain washing. You are incapable of providing
"gratitude" for the job or satisfactory customer service?

Do you really believe what you just wrote about yourself as a person without even exploring other opportunities available?

 

[deezler]

Sea2, chill, man. Let me guess, you're self employed?

Unions have definitively improved the working conditions (safety) and compensation for millions of workers over the last century. Is it really that complicated for you to understand that having a safer, healthier workplace and receiving better compensation would make you a more loyal and eager worker every day?

Of course some unions are just a total waste of space, doing nothing and taking dues. And even harming companies bottom lines. We all know this. But it's certainly not all, or even most unions. People like their unions and vote to stay in them, paying them part of their own paychecks. And seek out union jobs just to do this. Ask yourself, why? Just to bankrupt the very companies they work for?

I don't always have the data, or flexibility to make a direct choice, but as a consumer: I would rather buy products from companies where management has a healthy relationship with their union workforce. Where everyone can take pride in what they do, earn a decent living, and keep the middle class alive in this country.

 

[sea2summit]

Sea2, chill, man. Let me guess, you're self employed?

Unions have definitively improved the working conditions (safety) and compensation for millions of workers over the last century. Is it really that complicated for you to understand that having a safer, healthier workplace and receiving better compensation would make you a more loyal and eager worker every day?

Of course some unions are just a total waste of space, doing nothing and taking dues. And even harming companies bottom lines. We all know this. But it's certainly not all, or even most unions. People like their unions and vote to stay in them, paying them part of their own paychecks. And seek out union jobs just to do this. Ask yourself, why? Just to bankrupt the very companies they work for?

I don't always have the data, or flexibility to make a direct choice, but as a consumer: I would rather buy products from companies where management has a healthy relationship with their union workforce. Where everyone can take pride in what they do, earn a decent living, and keep the middle class alive in this country.

As a youth I worked at a family business. I worked in a closed union shop for about five years after some college. Now just over 22 in a profession where a union is actually unlawful, and rightly so. As a student of history I fully support how unions started and their early works (minus the killing and beating of innocent people that were just trying to cross a line to feed their own families). I just feel now the market and oversight are strong enough now that unions have no purpose now other than fleecing the company when things are bad for the employees or fleecing the employees when things are good. They are a self licking ice cream cone we would be better off without or just using them as a "break glass in an emergency" kind of thing.

 

[Bobctat2035]

But there are far fewer cases of unions causing ruing than pure greed by owners. (selling out to venture capitalists who decimate a company, for example). As a small business owner, what would you do if someone wanted to bUy your business for a fortune and carve it into tiny pieces, leaving your workers without a job. Not their fault, but out a job nonetheless.

What would you do if someone said they'd pay you $1,000,000 to quit your job today? Would you stay because you'd feel bad for leaving your bosses high and dry? Of course not. So why is it greed when a small business owner who worked their asses off building something from nothing wants to sell and retire? And why should a union be able to tell me I can or cannot sell my company?

The problem is that people like you, and most people, feel like an employer has some sort of obligation to each and every employee to make sure they are well fed, well educated, insured and make a "living wage." That simply isn't true. My only obligation to my employees is to pay them to do the job they were hired for and their only obligation to me is to do the job they were hired for. Nothing more and nothing less.
Whether I'm making "record profits" is completely irrelevant. If you are still doing the same menial job you were 15 years ago then you should expect to be paid as such. Want to make more? Take on more responsibility or learn something new to advance. Otherwise, go work somewhere who will pay you what you think you're worth which is probably a lot less than most people think.

 

[Bobctat2035]

They are a self licking ice cream cone we would be better off without

Lol this is the most awesome thing I've heard today. Just the visual made reading this entire thread worthwhile.

 

[ultrarunner]

In some circles October is being called Striketober with Deere being cited by Healthcare Unions in the story I read...

It's kind of a mixed bag Covid is a part of it...

The government has mandated vaccinations and dismayed when people quit... and now schools kids are marching plus the labor shortage, inflation, etc...

'Striketober': Why healthcare workers nationwide are walking off the job - Becker's Hospital Review | Healthcare News & Analysis

In a movement that has been deemed "striketober" online and on social media, workers in healthcare and other industries, who have been on the front lines of the COVID-19 pandemic for nearly two years, are walking off the job or preparing to walk off over working conditions, according to NBC News.

www.beckershospitalreview.com

 

[mo1]

Head scratcher, one has to wonder without the early unions would there be(paid sick days, health care, paid vacation days, safe work environments, good pay for a good days work and so on) Pretty sure good old Henry ford and the coal mine owners could give two chits less about there employees.Are the unions perfect hell no but there are some real douche bags in management also.I been on both side of the fence to witness both.

Employer-provided health care in particular arose because of FDR enacting wage caps during his reign and then not only allowing for employers to not count money paid for employees' health care to be subject to the cap, it was also not subject to income tax. It continues to this day because the tax deductibility remains for health insurance premiums through employer provided insurance but not for self-provided insurance unless you fall below a certain AGI.

Wages today would likely be scarcely different for most people as there are few union shops around. Unless you work in a union shop or in a field where there are a lot of union shops (and thus your nonunion employer would need to compete with union wages to attract employees), unions don't affect your wages.

Nearly all of the rest are current in force due to federal and to a lesser extent state laws and regs, but the initial origin of those laws and regs can be debated.

As a youth I worked at a family business. I worked in a closed union shop for about five years after some college. Now just over 22 in a profession where a union is actually unlawful, and rightly so. As a student of history I fully support how unions started and their early works (minus the killing and beating of innocent people that were just trying to cross a line to feed their own families). I just feel now the market and oversight are strong enough now that unions have no purpose now other than fleecing the company when things are bad for the employees or fleecing the employees when things are good. They are a self licking ice cream cone we would be better off without or just using them as a "break glass in an emergency" kind of thing.

Unions initially started because you had a small number of (relatively) big employers in an area, sometimes just one, and people could not easily move to other areas. The balance of power was very much in the hands of the employer(s) and as we all know, power WILL be abused. Unions as well as antitrust legislation were the initial response to this. As was noted above, unions had varied effects, some good, some bad, and some indifferent. (The antitrust legislation was widely thought to have been ineffective.) Arguably the automobile did far more to help improve working conditions as with them, employees could very easily vote with their feet and leave an area with poor employers and go elsewhere to work for better ones. I suspect this is why unions really declined after WWII- people could get much of the positives simply by moving and making employers compete for employees, but not having to deal with the associated negatives of a union.

 

[sea2summit]

Unions initially started because you had a small number of (relatively) big employers in an area, sometimes just one, and people could not easily move to other areas. The balance of power was very much in the hands of the employer(s) and as we all know, power WILL be abused. Unions as well as antitrust legislation were the initial response to this. As was noted above, unions had varied effects, some good, some bad, and some indifferent. (The antitrust legislation was widely thought to have been ineffective.) Arguably the automobile did far more to help improve working conditions as with them, employees could very easily vote with their feet and leave an area with poor employers and go elsewhere to work for better ones. I suspect this is why unions really declined after WWII- people could get much of the positives simply by moving and making employers compete for employees, but not having to deal with the associated negatives of a union.

I'd add in the word monopoly somewhere. Some, maybe most, weren't even paying in dollars you got tokens to use at the company store, for your rent, etc. And "power" was absolutely abused.

Good point about WWII, like I said there's enough market out there now for employment and opportunities unions don't have a role. In my opinion.