Buying Advice John Deere compared to Kubota

[Agvg]

Yes, a lot of one cylinder, very different from ferguson and Fordson at the time.

 

[rScotty]

Germany had a different tractor tradition Vs England, here in Norway in the fifties and early sixties there was several German brands but mostly low hp and few cylinders. Does anybody know if there was a reason for this? Here I live there are a few M.A.N 4WD tractors from the fifties but the price was very high. Quite a few Porsche was sold to but mostly low hp versions.
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Front wheel drive (4wd) didn't really become popular in the US until Yanmar's design of a front axle with the tower/bevel gear type of drive came onto the scene. That Yanmar front drive was a marvel because it cured the mechanical problems from having front wheels simultaneously steer and drive. The downside was that it was an expensive front axle to make. Lots of precision parts and required tight tolerances in manufacturing. That didn't bother Yanmar so much because they were such an expensive tractor with exacting tolerances anyway. The dealers were quick to point out that Yanmar had made the decision not to compete based on low price.

Most of the other front wheel drives at the time used either U joints or Rzeppa CV joints out at the ends of the front axle. That kind of joint design always had problems with torque transmission when turning.... angulation was limited and wear was high - but we put up with it because there were no options until the tower/bevel drive came along. Some tractors still use that old U-joint type of front wheel drive.
rScotty

 

[Bavarian]

Here in the mountains it was a lot of single axle tractors, Aebi, bucher, Motostandard, agria and many more, suppose it was very common in your contry to.

.. Irus, Holder.
I had a 10 HP Holder diesel. 2 cycle engine, built in 1957. Had to sell it when we moved to Canada.

 

[ovrszd]

First FWA tractor I saw was an Oliver, model 2150 or maybe 1850 I think, in 1966 or 67.

 

[ultrarunner]

My dealer sells both green and orange, as you can see from my picture went green. I just liked the pedal configuration and loader stick set up better. Am very happy with my choice, so alot of your choice goes back to what feels right for you.test drive them all..I think the major colors green, orange, red and blue all make good tractors...good luck with your search

We had several that did the same... mostly small dealers up in the foothills and such.

The last time I visited one I had asked what happen to Deere... was told they had to make a choice and Kubota better served their customer base...

The San Jose Dealer was forever New Holland and took on Kubota... same thing there... they dropped New Holland and kept Kubota... not saying one is better than the other as I own both... but the BX 23 really got it right and filled a niche of a usable, affordable TLB

Here we have Ford as in Jubilee, CAT, Deere, Farmall, Kubota, etc... the Kubota BX and L3800 are the working tractors...

 

[ultrarunner]

Germany had a different tractor tradition Vs England, here in Norway in the fifties and early sixties there was several German brands but mostly low hp and few cylinders. Does anybody know if there was a reason for this? Here I live there are a few M.A.N 4WD tractors from the fifties but the price was very high. Quite a few Porsche was sold to but mostly low hp versions.

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1947 is when Steyr Tractors rolled out chassis 1001

It was quite a step up replacing manual labor on small mountain family farms... it allowed one to do the work of many... remember many of the high mountain farms had no electricity at the time... think Heidi.

The single cylinder crank start with 13 hp. replaced mowing with a scythe, hauling with draft animals and the PTO was used for all manor of work... the blower to move the hay to the loft and field power for things such as buzz saws and pumps.

In winter... I remember unscrewing a bunt or glow plug... lighting it and screwing it in the cylinder head and crank starting...

There was no electrical system, no battery to worry about...

By 1950 the hydraulic 3 point was in production...over 45,000 were produced during the run with later models producing 15hp... many remained in service for decades with daily use... summer and winter.

Attached is a picture of one in daily service for 15 years... for many it was the only transportation for people and goods to the city... most will have aux fender seats...

Someone drove one around the world a few years ago...

I have looked for one in North America but so far no luck and they are prized now in Europe as functional collector items.

 

[Bavarian]

And one winter, I think it was 79, we had a major power outage for several days due to a heavy snowstorm. The farmers had to milk their cows by hand.
Someone figured out to connect the suction side of the engine to the milking machine to produce the required vacuum to milk the cows. The tractors smoked like **** but got the milk off the cows.

 

[ultrarunner]

Farmers can be very enterprising... I wonder if they were using Westphalia Separators?

Automation such as tractors and the Steyr Hamster for gathering and the milking machine made if possible for a few to do the work of many...

I tried to buy the tractor in my post but no luck...

 

[Bavarian]

Westphalia I think was the most common one.

 

[ultrarunner]

Westphalia I think was the most common one.

My cousin's father in law was the local rep... for nearly 50 years... it was a great business and he was a great guy... generous and gregarious…

He also knew EVERY ONE even in the most remote mountain tops... and they knew him... I think he was 1955 to 2005 with the company?

If and when I ever get back I expect to see more Kubota tractors... not so much for farming but I have seen local municipalities use the smallest cab Kubota set up for snow removal and such... some places the big snow throwers just can't go and being in an open cab in January isn't a lot of fun...

Even the small farms all seem to have big tractors... sometimes only the farm tractor A/C and the family car not...

 

[ultrarunner]

Just looked up the 2015 Austria Stats

17.23 % Steyr
13.06 % New Holland
11.17 % Deere
9.07 % Fendt
7.44 % Massey
5.63 % Deutz
4.43 % Kubota

So Deere has double the market share... and is Number 3

 

[Bavarian]

Just looked up the 2015 Austria Stats

17.23 % Steyr
13.06 % New Holland
11.17 % Deere
9.07 % Fendt
7.44 % Massey
5.63 % Deutz
4.43 % Kubota

So Deere has double the market share... and is Number 3

You need to understand one big difference between (most of) Europe and North America.
The homeowner or hobby farmer maeket does not exist like in NA.

Now for Germany for example, you need to license the tractor to operate it on the road. But no domestic insurance would insure your tractor, except you have that specific farm policy. Most of the small farmers with a couple of acres quit their operations, sold the livestock and rented out the land or sold it alltogether. To own land in the size of let's say 5-10 acres wasn't affordable for a usual homeowner. My parents bought a piece of land in the early 60's off a farmer and it was considered as "big". It was about a quarter of an acre.

The market that puts Kubota ahead of John Deere on sales numbers in NA doesn't exist. And Austria is similar. I lived just a few miles from the Austrian border.

 

[ovrszd]

You need to understand one big difference between (most of) Europe and North America.
The homeowner or hobby farmer maeket does not exist like in NA.

Now for Germany for example, you need to license the tractor to operate it on the road. But no domestic insurance would insure your tractor, except you have that specific farm policy. Most of the small farmers with a couple of acres quit their operations, sold the livestock and rented out the land or sold it alltogether. To own land in the size of let's say 5-10 acres wasn't affordable for a usual homeowner. My parents bought a piece of land in the early 60's off a farmer and it was considered as "big". It was about a quarter of an acre.

The market that puts Kubota ahead of John Deere on sales numbers in NA doesn't exist. And Austria is similar. I lived just a few miles from the Austrian border.

Yep. Americans that have never been to Europe or parts of Southeast Asia struggle to understand.

I've saw crops planted in the triangle formed by the off ramp of a highway.

 

[Bavarian]

And road ditches mowed by hand with a scythe and for food insted of endles acres shredded with a brush cutter.

 

[Paystar]

This is exactly why I don't like Kubota and will never have one! They simply don't stand behind their products when there is a problem. They instead lie and blame the customer instead of taking ownership and responsibility for their mistakes and poor designs. There is a reason why Deere's have better resale value and are the gold standard in CUTS.

Kinda different than what my combined John Deere Kubota dealer told me when I bought my first tractor. He said "Kubota stands behind their warranty better than Deere. Deere tries to fight and deny claims. And when Kubota has a warranty issues, the reps are on the phone with me and want to know what failed and how it can be improved."

Dealers words, not mine. But after the years and years of reading about broken loader stands, failed U-joints, bending fuel tank mounts, auto-connect decks that don't always hook up correctly, no temp gauge, etc on the 2xxx and 2R series, I wouldn't say they are superior either, LOL

 

[troverman]

Yep. Americans that have never been to Europe or parts of Southeast Asia struggle to understand.

I've saw crops planted in the triangle formed by the off ramp of a highway.

Years back, I was in the market for a rototiller and started a little research. In the US, the old standby is the large Troy-Bilt machines. Despite Troy-Bilt now essentially being a rebadged Wal-Mart brand, the largest "Big Red" tiller models were / are still the same design as the old ones from decades ago...meaning tough and reliable, if not crude. However, during the process I learned about a brand called BCS which marketed themselves as a "two-wheeled tractor." This was a very ingenious design which had a PTO output, an engine, a gear and clutch transmission, and rotating handle bars. If you needed a rear attachment like a tiller, or a front attachment like a snow blower, you could simply rotate the handle bars and the PTO would be on the other end. There were equal-speed forward and reverse gears. The tires were small "tractor tires" of the bar / R1 design.

What I learned is that there are a ton of small farming attachments for these BCS units, and that two-wheeled tractors are not uncommon for small farming plots in the limited countryside of Europe. Having never been outside of north america, this was a new concept to me. Even where I live in New Hampshire, most "small" farms are still a hundred or several hundred acres and operate using large farm tractors.

Anyway, back more to the topic at hand, Kubota often advertises that they are the largest manufacturer of diesel engines under 100HP in the world. However, Kubota diesels are used in many applications besides their own brand of equipment, such as Bob-Cat skid steers, Jacobsen golf course mowers, Carrier reefer trucks, etc, etc. Now, I think it says something for the engine that it is so popular in so many non-Kubota applications, as there are other choices...many being less expensive. None of this means Kubota is the top selling tractor. Even if it was, many would argue top sales don't necessarily equate to the best product, either. Lots of people would rank a Silverado or RAM truck over a Ford, despite Ford being the top seller.

My experience is limited to the smaller JD tractors. My first tractor was a 2013 Kubota B2920. I remember going to the Deere dealership and looking at a brand new Deere of the same size and power as the Kubota. At this point I was brand-neutral. What I noticed was that the Deere had a two-range hydro vs the Kubota's 3 range, plastic hood vs the Kubota's steel hood, and lack of an engine temperature gauge...just a warning light. The last thing I noticed was the higher price on the Deere.
When I bought my 2018 Kubota MX4800, once again I cross shopped Deere. And once again, even in the larger size, found similar lackings of the Deere, all for a larger price.

It's not that I don't like Deere, as I do. Some of their tractors are very good looking. I love that they are an American brand. I also believe they are the leader in the large, full farm tractor size.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I watch a really smart guy disect tools on YOUTUBE. The German Tools for the most part are higher quality but often have design features that are expensive and totally unnecessary. Like a highly complex proprietary plug/socket on a thousand dollar curcular saw. I see JD in the same way. Engineers/designers making stuff expensive and complex because they can. Kubota wouldn't do stuff like that. Different culture and mindset.

 

[Bavarian]

Years back, I was in the market for a rototiller and started a little research. In the US, the old standby is the large Troy-Bilt machines. Despite Troy-Bilt now essentially being a rebadged Wal-Mart brand, the largest "Big Red" tiller models were / are still the same design as the old ones from decades ago...meaning tough and reliable, if not crude. However, during the process I learned about a brand called BCS which marketed themselves as a "two-wheeled tractor." This was a very ingenious design which had a PTO output, an engine, a gear and clutch transmission, and rotating handle bars. If you needed a rear attachment like a tiller, or a front attachment like a snow blower, you could simply rotate the handle bars and the PTO would be on the other end. There were equal-speed forward and reverse gears. The tires were small "tractor tires" of the bar / R1 design.

What I learned is that there are a ton of small farming attachments for these BCS units, and that two-wheeled tractors are not uncommon for small farming plots in the limited countryside of Europe. Having never been outside of north america, this was a new concept to me. Even where I live in New Hampshire, most "small" farms are still a hundred or several hundred acres and operate using large farm tractors.

Anyway, back more to the topic at hand, Kubota often advertises that they are the largest manufacturer of diesel engines under 100HP in the world. However, Kubota diesels are used in many applications besides their own brand of equipment, such as Bob-Cat skid steers, Jacobsen golf course mowers, Carrier reefer trucks, etc, etc. Now, I think it says something for the engine that it is so popular in so many non-Kubota applications, as there are other choices...many being less expensive. None of this means Kubota is the top selling tractor. Even if it was, many would argue top sales don't necessarily equate to the best product, either. Lots of people would rank a Silverado or RAM truck over a Ford, despite Ford being the top seller.

My experience is limited to the smaller JD tractors. My first tractor was a 2013 Kubota B2920. I remember going to the Deere dealership and looking at a brand new Deere of the same size and power as the Kubota. At this point I was brand-neutral. What I noticed was that the Deere had a two-range hydro vs the Kubota's 3 range, plastic hood vs the Kubota's steel hood, and lack of an engine temperature gauge...just a warning light. The last thing I noticed was the higher price on the Deere.
When I bought my 2018 Kubota MX4800, once again I cross shopped Deere. And once again, even in the larger size, found similar lackings of the Deere, all for a larger price.

It's not that I don't like Deere, as I do. Some of their tractors are very good looking. I love that they are an American brand. I also believe they are the leader in the large, full farm tractor size.

The BCS have many options and attachments. But the idea of turning the handlebars and reversing the tractor wasn't new. The Irus in the 50's or 60's were that way already.

 

[Agvg]

I watch a really smart guy disect tools on YOUTUBE. The German Tools for the most part are higher quality but often have design features that are expensive and totally unnecessary. Like a highly complex proprietary plug/socket on a thousand dollar curcular saw. I see JD in the same way. Engineers/designers making stuff expensive and complex because they can. Kubota wouldn't do stuff like that. Different culture and mindset.

But soon they must, the Japanese philosophy of play so safe that they are a decade behind everybody else doesn't work. Toyota has been trying this in Europe and it doesn't impress the customers. If Kubota are going to play in the same league as top of the line JD and Fendt they have a long road ahead of them.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Our farmer here bought a new Fendt. When the day comes that all those computers don't boot up when you switch it on, and the thing sits there like a giant expensive Boat Anchor, the simplicity of Kubota might suddenly become appealing. lol