Determining shop’s value over time?

[piaffepony]

The OP generally views reality different from others. Sign for the man to run like H E double toothpicks LOL

As long as they’re not running towards the bank with my ****, I’ll hold the door open and even help them find the other tennis shoe that was right in front on their face....

 

[piaffepony]

Re: Determining shop痴 value over time?

:thumbsup:

Geez.....she's not looking for relationship or marriage advice.

Isn't this similar, but different, to having a tenant who wants to build a building on land they lease. How to protect all?

How about: He pays to builds shop (with real money). He owns shop (the materials). He leases shop land from you for $X per year. He rents room and board from you for $Y dollars per year. No real money changes hands, but all payments ($X+$Y) go towards you purchasing shop. If he leaves before $X+$Y = $Shop, then you owe him the balance.

The problem may be agreeing in what $X and $Y and $shop are year to year.

Somebody is going to have to risk something if one builds a structure on the other's property.

Bingo! This is exactly what I had in mind.. I just need to figure out a ball park value.. or at the very least a formula we can agree to use if we separate in the future.

 

[piaffepony]

So... Not knowing very much. My opinion (worth what you pay for), is that you should stay completely independent financially. That could be the living arrangement or the Pre-nup agreement. It sounds like that is where the issue is. What I mean is that you both own homes and are fine on your own. Why mix assets and incomes?? If you want to live together (as it sounds like he would move in with you). Then split utilities and food, etc in half. You pay your mortgage and he pays his. If you are really moving in together (he is moving out of his place) than I would have him rent his house out and and pay you a reasonable rent to live with you. If it is done fair and reasonable then there is no reason to mix anything. If you split, you just both go your own way.
The shop is the big question. What does he use now? Could he rent something? Why does he NEED a shop? Is there a small shop that could meet his immediate needs and you would be willing to build (pay for and have be part of your property) that he could use (added into his rent). Again, then any day or years down the road it is a clean split. If designed right it could be added onto later (I.E. Extend the shop to 2 or 3 times it's size at a later date when you guys decide to share everything or you have the money to build it and he can pay more rent for it...

He really likes to spend a lot of his free time working on his car and jeep and browsing craigslist and such for bargains on small “fun and flip” stuff. He has a lot of tools, car parts, jeep accessories and HVAC parts he refurbishes for the occasional side job. Right now, he uses a typical 2 car garage attached to his house. It’s too small for his needs. I only have a couple of small storage sheds for all of my tools, parts, building scraps and seasonal storage crap.. I do the majority of my work out of the back of an old farm truck parked next to the shed or parked near the project I’m working on. To maintain my vehicles/equipment I park in the vacant covered area in my fabric building riding arena.... it’s dusty and dirty... so not ideal at all. The use of that space won’t be there for long either because that’s were my additional stalls are going. A shop would definitely be used by us both, but him probably a little more than me. He definitely wants something bigger and fancier than anything I would build or have built if it were just for me BUT if we can agree, we’d both have something much nicer and much quicker than on our own.

We both agree renting a garage/shop is a more expensive waste of money as there is zero chance of recouping any of his money. We do use each others stuff as well and that would make it more difficult and wasteful because he would never be able to find something closer than he is now. We would also never see each other except to eat and sleep.

 

[Rustyiron]

I bet a lot of us here responding have daughters near your age and that's reflected in our responses. That being said, from what I see (this is an only an internet thread) and you were my "little girl" I'd say there's no rush to do anything, and doing nothing right now or for the next few years would make the most sense. Hoping you both the best along the way, till you really find your way. As you say it's only a piece of paper as is a pre nup. Neither of them will form that bond that you need for a long marriage.
Chill out with your guy and find your way together, time is your friend here.

 

[Sigarms]

Re: Determining shop痴 value over time?

I'd say there's no rush to do anything, and doing nothing right now or for the next few years would make the most sense. Hoping you both the best along the way, till you really find your way. As you say it's only a piece of paper as is a pre nup. Neither of them will form that bond that you need for a long marriage.
Chill out with your guy and find your way together, time is your friend here.

Best advice here so far IMHO.

That said, and I could be wrong, it's the guy who is doing the pushing as far as a relationship?

 

[jaydee325]

Re: Determining shop痴 value over time?

Sorry if I missed it, but 3 pages and no one has suggested a lawyer be consulted?

This sounds more like a business partnership. Playing devils advocate, say this "relationship" goes south. The partner that paid to build the shop will need to be compensated for said shop (potentially). One of the partners will be on the hook to buy the partner out.

Only a lawyer can put together the appropriate agreement (with fair values assigned) to ensure any future action is equitable to both parties.

 

[boomer1025]

Re: Determining shop痴 value over time?

Well here's my two cents on this matter.
Piaff wait till YOU can afford to build the shop. Then rent it to him. That way if he decides to move on after a few months. You are able to make the loan payments with your income.
If you build it now I don't think you have the income resources to buy him out or take over the loan payments.
Since it's going to be built on your land. Make darn sure that's it's ALL yours, if not it will get very messy and expensive for you.

 

[prof fate]

Re: Determining shop痴 value over time?

we have no idea of their relationship - is it 3 months old or 3 years? either been married before? (makes a difference in things, as I divorced 2 years ago and my GF 1 year ago - the stars in ones eyes are not the same as the first time around).
Who has the 'most money' to contribute? She's supplying the land, that has value, he the building. He uses the building so he's getting his 'money' out of it that way. One could say.
He has a house now..renting or owning? Is he selling to get the cash for the new barn/shop? Gonna live with her then? If things don't work out sounds like he's gonna be homeless and broke..hardly a womanizer.

Well here's my two cents on this matter.
Piaff wait till YOU can afford to build the shop. Then rent it to him. That way if he decides to move on after a few months. You are able to make the loan payments with your income.
If you build it now I don't think you have the income resources to buy him out or take over the loan payments.
Since it's going to be built on your land. Make darn sure that's it's ALL yours, if not it will get very messy and expensive for you.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Re: Determining shop痴 value over time?

we have no idea of their relationship - is it 3 months old or 3 years? either been married before? (makes a difference in things, as I divorced 2 years ago and my GF 1 year ago - the stars in ones eyes are not the same as the first time around).
Who has the 'most money' to contribute? She's supplying the land, that has value, he the building. He uses the building so he's getting his 'money' out of it that way. One could say.
He has a house now..renting or owning? Is he selling to get the cash for the new barn/shop? Gonna live with her then? If things don't work out sounds like he's gonna be homeless and broke..hardly a womanizer.

The whole scenario has catastrophe written all over it.

 

[piaffepony]

Re: Determining shopç—´ value over time?

we have no idea of their relationship - is it 3 months old or 3 years? either been married before? (makes a difference in things, as I divorced 2 years ago and my GF 1 year ago - the stars in ones eyes are not the same as the first time around).
Who has the 'most money' to contribute? She's supplying the land, that has value, he the building. He uses the building so he's getting his 'money' out of it that way. One could say.
He has a house now..renting or owning? Is he selling to get the cash for the new barn/shop? Gonna live with her then? If things don't work out sounds like he's gonna be homeless and broke..hardly a womanizer.

We’ve been in a serious relationship 2 1/2 years. We’ve lived together 95% of that time. We used to kind of split the time we spent at each of our houses based off when I had my son (ex and I split custody 50/50). Since January, we’ve lived 100% of the time at my house for a couple reasons... I hated commuting and looking for something only to remember “oh crap! I left it in the other house”. My house is more “homey” because I have cable (**** I was only able to watch any TV because I paid for the netflix!) and keep way more food in the fridge.. his roommate complained about every little thing I did...like using his (guest) bathroom or eating something in the fridge that I didn’t know was his... just drama that I didn’t want in my life.

We’ve known each other for 14 years and was in the ex and I’s close group of friends. We didn’t get together until a year later after my ex moved out...so I’ve seen “behind the curtain” so to speak and know the intimate details of his past relationships, sexcapades and shenanigans. I’m well aware of his attributes and faults, so this isn’t a rushing in kind of thing... it’s more of a “you’re costing me money and not contributing enough for the amount of time you spend here so it’s time to $ h i t or get off the pot” kind of thing... he wants this too but we also don’t want either one to have to risk it all.

 

[MossRoad]

Re: Determining shop痴 value over time?

I got nothin. :laughing:

I'm of the school (like others) of marriage that if you plan on an exit strategy before the marriage, just don't get married in the first place. While I can understand the desire to protect your assets if something happens, marriage, to me at least, means the two become one. If the two of you can't get to that point, and aren't willing to "risk it all" then just push the marriage scenario "over there" for a while.

What you're really after is a business adventure with fringe benefits (wink wink).

As others have mentioned, you'd be well served to consult an attorney that specializes in prenups. He/she will hopefully have a good grasp of what the two of you want to accomplish with that agreement.

Good luck. :thumbsup:

 

[NorTracNY]

I'm with MossRoad. I just can't believe how complicated life can be when you don't follow the path.... How about he sells his house and buys a close plot of land to build his shop on?

Good luck.

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

My opinion... Stay single, you and your friend. No relationship can last when each of you has a plan"B". You are either in 100% or nothing... But, that's me.

Summed up right there....especially "in 100% or nothing". I'm going on 36 years next month...we met and married 6 weeks later. Everything of mine became hers and vice versa. She had mega student loans and I paid every last cent of them. She has put up with me for "better or worse"....a couple of failed businesses and 'starting all over'.

100% 50/50 or nothing.... Keep your arrangements as they are.

 

[Sigarms]

How about he sells his house and buys a close plot of land to build his shop on?.

What was his roomate do if he sold his house?

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

The best way to 'protect' yourself would be to consult a lawyer as previously stated. Sounds like you're putting up 'collateral' (land), he's putting up money for the building. Draw up an agreement that anything improved on your property becomes yours. If he doesn't agree to that...oh well...

 

[Snobdds]

I have consulted on a few mergers and accusations in the business world. It's a simple formula.

Current market value of assets.
-
Liabilities adjusted for net present value.
=
Net worth

Then see who is worth more and proceed accordingly.

 

[skipperbrown]

Why don't you give him a wedding present of enough land to build his shop? Or give him a 50 yr ground lease to build his shop. The problem with pre nups is that assets tend to lose their identity over the years. Funds get mingled and co-mingled and separated again (a forensic accountant's heaven on earth at $200/hr). Yes, you own the land, but he helps build value to it by building fences, sheds, etc. and he helps financially by helping to pay taxes, insurance, etc. thus sharing the asset. Courts take his contributions, monetize it, and subtract it from your asset pile during settlement. So you get to keep your land, but you have to pay for it a second time. Trying to figure out cost and appreciation of a future event that may not happen before you get married is a recipe for disaster. My advice is don't begin with a starter husband. If you have any doubts, don't go there. Divorces are both mentally and financially exhausting. Ask me how I know that!

 

[prof fate]

Re: Determining shop痴 value over time?

I got nothin. :laughing:

I'm of the school (like others) of marriage that if you plan on an exit strategy before the marriage, just don't get married in the first place. While I can understand the desire to protect your assets if something happens, marriage, to me at least, means the two become one. If the two of you can't get to that point, and aren't willing to "risk it all" then just push the marriage scenario "over there" for a while.

What you're really after is a business adventure with fringe benefits (wink wink).

As others have mentioned, you'd be well served to consult an attorney that specializes in prenups. He/she will hopefully have a good grasp of what the two of you want to accomplish with that agreement.

Good luck. :thumbsup:

spoken like someone that has only been married once (if at all), never been around a divorce situation where assets are an issue, where the divorce is of 'poor' or un-equal income.

while 80% of first time marriages last for life, the other 20% go round and round often many times - i have a 75 year old friend on her 4th marriage. (hence the statistic that 50% of marriages end in divorce).

 

[piaffepony]

What was his roomate do if he sold his house?

I have no idea.

 

[piaffepony]

I'm with MossRoad. I just can't believe how complicated life can be when you don't follow the path.... How about he sells his house and buys a close plot of land to build his shop on?

Good luck.

Oh I wish! We have thought about it... but no one is willing to sell a small parcel.