Portland cement or other trick for turning a soup pot into a driveway?

   / Portland cement or other trick for turning a soup pot into a driveway? #11  
If he told you that, I would be leery about what else he tries to tell you.
 
   / Portland cement or other trick for turning a soup pot into a driveway? #12  
I am using geotextile in self wicking garden beds to stop the sand getting in the pipe on the bottom, I have watched road construction crews laying a 'mat' before putting down the road base and wondered if it was the same thing albeit a different colour and a lot wider.
We also have weed mat which is a woven plastic product but not sure if that falls in the same category.
At the moment I have to scrape out an area about 3x4 metres (yards are near enough) and I am thinking of putting this down before putting in the road base and sand to put pavers on but not sure haw it will take to compacting the base on top of it, eg: is it strong enough that it won't tear hence my interest in this post.
Also we had a sloppy bit of driveway a couple of years ago and I just scooped out the soild until we hit a firm base, about 3-6 inches, then backfilled it with road base, it has stood up to it OK and we have not had any problems but I wouldn't want to dig out any deeper than that as it would have been cost prohibitive if we had to buy fill, the area was about 20' x 8' and we got lucky as there was some road resurfacing going on and they dumped a few loads for us for nothing.
 
   / Portland cement or other trick for turning a soup pot into a driveway? #13  
Remove grass and slime.Drain. Till in lime, 1-2lbper foot (or spread).Put 1 1/2 layer of 4-5" bullrock, best if worked in with tracked equipment. Then cloth or whatever and 5-8" of 1.5" and finer material.
I just finished doing 3500 sq. ft. in Galveston County. Try to catch a dry period. It has been so wet.
 
   / Portland cement or other trick for turning a soup pot into a driveway? #14  
Yeah, road fabric is the way to go. It will keep the mud from pumping up through the rock. However, don't just start spreading stuff without prepping the site. If there is any way you can dewater the site, do it. A heavy load will make ruts even through fabric and rock if the underlying soil won't support it. Your place looks pretty flat, but if you can trench in drain lines, put the drain pipe in the bottom, and fill over the top of it with washed drain rock and fabric, it would be a big help. You may have to do drain lines/fabric/road base/fabric/grade rock. At a guess, you are looking at at least a foot of fill, and you will have to figure out how to compact it to lock it in.

One reliable thing about the construction industry is that if you don't have time to do it right, you will always have time to do it over.
 
   / Portland cement or other trick for turning a soup pot into a driveway? #15  
I've done it with and without geotex fabric and have seen both methods work and both methods fail. Really depends on what's below. I sort of feel like correcting drainage issues is the more important first step, but that's not always possible.

With all the recent rain we've had, I have a couple sections of my woods trails that are mucky messes (been here 7 years and this is the first time I've seen it so bad). When I have time, I'm going to get a load of #3 gravel and put it down directly, no fabric. Knowing this soil, if it's one of these mucky areas, it's got hard clay below. I've had OK luck dumping #3 on these areas without geotex.
 
   / Portland cement or other trick for turning a soup pot into a driveway? #16  
With the muck of lots of organic material adding cement is a drill in futility. I had some experience with soil cement in Vietnam. Trying to build roads or building pads was a challenge with the climatic wet conditions. The laterite clay had no bottom when it got wet but when mixed with cement and vibratory compacting it became pretty good low strength concrete. That then formed the base to build on. We built our road beds at least 2' above the expected surrounding water level during the monsoon rains. We eventually asphalt paved the road beds after correcting flaws in the build-up. The Vietnamese were left with HS 20 grade highways. Many are still used today. The following is an extraction from that experience modified for where you have no solid base. I have much added construction experience since then also.

If you water table is really only 2" down your first job is to get up out of the water. Looks like your garage floor is only a foot above grade so not much to ply with if there is no way you can install a drain system. Unfortunately, dumping large rock of any size in it just keeps sinking into the muck until you shove it down to the clay strata; then that muck comes up at you as it gets displaced by the rock. Any rock you use has to be crushed so it keys together. That is the best chance to get a layer in that will not keep sinking. I would start with 6" minus with no fines so as things dry up the water drains down fast. Then make the next layer 2" minus. When you get above the existing grade is the time to add the fabric as you are now above the water. Build up with 1 1/4" minus with crusher fines to within 4" of the slab top grade of the lowest structure. When things dry out in summer get a vibratory roller and go over the whole thing then build back up to the 4" below slabs. You should then weather another wet winter and spring. It won't be cheap but that is the price you pay for building on low ground. My Daddy always said "Son, always build on the high ground".

Ron
 
   / Portland cement or other trick for turning a soup pot into a driveway?
  • Thread Starter
#17  
With the muck of lots of organic material adding cement is a drill in futility. I had some experience with soil cement in Vietnam. Trying to build roads or building pads was a challenge with the climatic wet conditions. The laterite clay had no bottom when it got wet but when mixed with cement and vibratory compacting it became pretty good low strength concrete. That then formed the base to build on. We built our road beds at least 2' above the expected surrounding water level during the monsoon rains. We eventually asphalt paved the road beds after correcting flaws in the build-up. The Vietnamese were left with HS 20 grade highways. Many are still used today. The following is an extraction from that experience modified for where you have no solid base. I have much added construction experience since then also.

If you water table is really only 2" down your first job is to get up out of the water. Looks like your garage floor is only a foot above grade so not much to ply with if there is no way you can install a drain system. Unfortunately, dumping large rock of any size in it just keeps sinking into the muck until you shove it down to the clay strata; then that muck comes up at you as it gets displaced by the rock. Any rock you use has to be crushed so it keys together. That is the best chance to get a layer in that will not keep sinking. I would start with 6" minus with no fines so as things dry up the water drains down fast. Then make the next layer 2" minus. When you get above the existing grade is the time to add the fabric as you are now above the water. Build up with 1 1/4" minus with crusher fines to within 4" of the slab top grade of the lowest structure. When things dry out in summer get a vibratory roller and go over the whole thing then build back up to the 4" below slabs. You should then weather another wet winter and spring. It won't be cheap but that is the price you pay for building on low ground. My Daddy always said "Son, always build on the high ground".

Ron

Keep in mind, this won't be a heavily traveled road. 2/3 of it will be an outdoor storage area ("junkyard"). Does that change anything?

Assuming that does not change anything, what you describe sounds pretty costly. Would it be possibly cheaper to have a contractor come and have the whole thing? Total area is 5000-6000 square feet.
 
   / Portland cement or other trick for turning a soup pot into a driveway?
  • Thread Starter
#18  
If he told you that, I would be leery about what else he tries to tell you.

I don't really know what to be leery of. Please, nobody here take this personally, I appreciate the time everyone took to offer advice, but the suggestions in this thread range from "just put down some road fabric" to what amounts to a civil engineering project. I'm really lost, and feel inclined to listen to whoever is geographically closest to me and deals with my type of soil and is in "the industry." That being said, his suggestion does seem a bit weak to me as a layman.
 
   / Portland cement or other trick for turning a soup pot into a driveway? #19  
I have had good results with the geo-fabric under the gravel. I buy mine from a guy who runs a gravel hauling/landscaping business. He sells 12 foot wide and 17 foot wide pieces cut to whatever length I request. Get a mixture of gravel sizes and they will "lock" together better but not any round river gravel.
 
   / Portland cement or other trick for turning a soup pot into a driveway? #20  
I don't really know what to be leery of. Please, nobody here take this personally, I appreciate the time everyone took to offer advice, but the suggestions in this thread range from "just put down some road fabric" to what amounts to a civil engineering project. I'm really lost, and feel inclined to listen to whoever is geographically closest to me and deals with my type of soil and is in "the industry." That being said, his suggestion does seem a bit weak to me as a layman.
To all: Brazoria county is south of Houston running all the way to the Gulf Coast. I know the north end of the county has problem soils and requires pilings/posts to build a house. I'm also aware of soils in central Texas that require the equivalent of 7 feet of excavation and replacing with more stable soil -or- use pilings, based on drill core samples and an engineering analysis. I am also aware that very few houses are built this way and opt for a concrete slab on grade. It was 10 years before an engineering firm had to be brought in to stabilize one corner of the house. The biggest problem the OP has is drainage and based on the pictures, that will be very hard to address. But, he's not doing a house. What he appears to be after is a place where he can put stuff so that it won't sink into the ground. Whatever he does is going to require some on-going maintenance/rework. Large stones and Geo-textiles should do it in his application, a concrete slab should spread the weight out the best and require the least maintenance.
 

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