Neighbors behaving badly

[TheMan419]

So I need some collective wisdom.....

My neighbors to my east I have never met. I cannot see their house from mine due to dense trees, even when the leaves are off the trees. Our boarder is a county maintained ditch. The bank on their side of the ditch is a berm meaning it drops off so no water from their side can flow naturally into the ditch.

Tonight I come home to the sound of heavy equipment moving around in the woods on their side of the ditch. There is a back hoe tearing down trees and clearing a path in the woods. Ultimately the operator dug through this berm. His stated goal is to bring out the transom and make his own ditch to drain the water from these neighbor's yard into the ditch.

My concern is a couple fold.

First it would seem to be a violation of some federal wetlands act or the other.

Second it would appear the excavator has now put a good bit of debris into the ditch. Since we are basically the head of the ditch I do not think that is going to cause a problem for water backing up into my property, but I am not sure of that fact.

Third the ditch is maintained by the County and putting any additional "cuts" into the ditch is regulated. Oddly enough there are tile lines into the ditch from the neighbor's side. They could have tied into those without too much effort and likely without anyone finding out.

So the question is what, if anything, do I care to do about it?

 

[4570Man]

Ask them to clean up the trash. Aside from that not your problem.

 

[John Fitzgerald]

Ask them to clean out the ditch like it was before. Otherwise, not a concern for you at this time. See how the water flows after the first big rain, then decide if any action is necessary. It's only a concern if the water diversion floods your property.

 

[Einthewoods]

I might have read past it and if so, I apologise.

Have they done anything to your property?
It sounded like the debris in the ditch likely wouldn't cause any harm? If it would, I'd ask them to clean it up.

But, if they haven't done anything to your property, and they clean up the debris if it would actually cause trouble, not sure what problem is trying to be solved.

 

[BrokeFarmerJohn]

Is the neighbors drainage flooding this guys property and that’s why he’s channeling it into a ditch?

I agree with the rest, if it’s not affecting you or your property, I wouldn’t worry about it.

You can talk to this guy about the ditch, get more info on it, help him if you think it can be improved upon for aesthetic reasons if that makes you happier. But I personally wouldn’t worry about his property.

 

[TheMan419]

Of course the main worry is if the ditch can handle the new extra water supply.

The work done at least right now is not asthetically pleasing. But that is just a matter of time for vegetation to grow back.

I do have some environmental concerns. This area used to be a marsh land. The area the neighbor is draining appears to be protected wetland.

 

[Einthewoods]

I'm probably the wrong guy to ask for advice then as anything I would say would come out in a bad way.

I'm not a big fan of Federal protection of State lands and I think it goes way overboard in many situations.

The previous marsh land is't marsh anymore because it was dried for housing?

 

[Redlands Okie]

In general most places do not allow a adjacent land owner to increase drainage onto your land. Even some types of altering drainage can be a issue. My area the department of environmental quality I think its called (DEQ) would be the first call. If its not affecting your property then as others have said it may not matter.

As far as the wetlands, perhaps the local game ranger would have ideas and local county extension office.

I am a big fan of being left alone. On the other hand if I did something that affected others then I would not be surprised to have a visit.

 

[MossRoad]

Of course the main worry is if the ditch can handle the new extra water supply.

The work done at least right now is not asthetically pleasing. But that is just a matter of time for vegetation to grow back.

I do have some environmental concerns. This area used to be a marsh land. The area the neighbor is draining appears to be protected wetland.

Why was his berm there in the first place? Just a fluke, or to direct water elsewhere? Contain a wetland? Filter ground water before it enters the ditch? Cool water before it enters the ditch (trout stream downstream?). All kinds of possibilities. And a big old can O' worms, too.

I'm just guessing, but comparing to our county up here in South Bend, if I did that to my ditch, I'd eventually get a visit from the county drainage board, told to correct the problem, and possibly pay a fine. Then, I'd expect a visit from the Indiana Department of Environmental Management (IDEM), followed by the Department of Natural Resources (DNR), and possibly the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. YIKES! :laughing:

 

[MossRoad]

Also, on our drainage ditch, I'm not allowed to alter the banks or build any structures or plant anything, trees, shrubs, crops, etc... within 25' of the centerline on each side. That's so the county can come in and dredge the ditch on a regular basis without obstruction. Don't know how your county maintains the ditches, but again, if it's like ours up here in South Bend, if your neighbor puts a cut in the berm that an excavator can't cross... uh-oh!

As mentioned, big old can O' worms.

 

[bigtiller]

If there is a marsh or wetlands involved, I'd let the county FSA office decide what to do.

The county engineer might be interested too. Excess water might affect how fast the road dries up after the spring thaw.

It would be easy to just let it be, but I figure if I have to follow the rules then everyone else does too.

 

[widefat]

You can locate Federal wetlands through this -

Wetlands Mapper

locate and zoom in to your land.

 

[TheMan419]

Moss - I am in st Joe county. The county surveyor is in charge of drainage ditches.

Why the berm was built - I have no idea. I suspect that is where they dumped the dirt dug out to make ditch.

We are no longer marsh land because of the ditches. They were built to make the place useable farm land we値l before any federal regulations. It has been farm land since the late 1800痴 at least.

 

[Diggin It]

I'm curious if the guy is new-ish to the area and if he might be unpleasantly surprised the next time the creek rises.

 

[TheMan419]

You can locate Federal wetlands through this -

Wetlands Mapper

locate and zoom in to your land.

Yes I had found that one. There are wet lands in the area he is working on. However the entire area is NOT wetlands. So not sure if he hit them or not. It appears to be a situation where they decided their drainage should run "right over there", no actual survey work done.

I'm curious if the guy is new-ish to the area and if he might be unpleasantly surprised the next time the creek rises.

I have owned my property for 3 years. In that time we have had a 1000 yr rain event and a 500 yr flood. So I am pretty versed on where the water goes. The excavator told me the neighbors had their back yard flood "After that rain we got" (meaning the 500 yr flood) and they don't want that to happen again. Of course putting all that extra water in the ditch may cause people down stream some problems.

My side of the ditch, due to the berm the neighbor had to dig through, is the low side. So if the ditch breaches its banks it will be on to my property.

This neighbor has owned their property for more than a decade as near as I can tell from the little bit of property records that are on line in my county.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

Call the authorities, anonymously. Make sure you mention "trout stream." Then let them handle it. If your neighbor mentions anything about a visit from the authorities, act surprised.

Avoid a neighbor war at all costs.

 

[widefat]

Call the authorities, anonymously. Make sure you mention "trout stream." Then let them handle it. If your neighbor mentions anything about a visit from the authorities, act surprised.

Avoid a neighbor war at all costs.

ha, "Trout Stream"
Excellent!

 

[John Fitzgerald]

500 year floods and 1,000 year rain events aren't. The answer is: no one knows.

 

[riptides]

Nip it in the bud now. Call your county for permit questions call you local DEQ if needed too.

My neighbor did a similar act which resulted in flooding of my property. Did not look that way at first and he claims to this day that it was legal and legit.

 

[MossRoad]

Moss - I am in st Joe county. The county surveyor is in charge of drainage ditches.

Why the berm was built - I have no idea. I suspect that is where they dumped the dirt dug out to make ditch.

We are no longer marsh land because of the ditches. They were built to make the place useable farm land we値l before any federal regulations. It has been farm land since the late 1800痴 at least.

HA! My memory slips, neighbor. :laughing:

The Surveyor is not in charge of the drainage ditches. The Drainage Board is. The Surveyor sits on the board as a technical advisor, but has no vote.

Drainage Board | St. Joseph County, IN

I had a few minor run around with the drainage board. When we first bought the property, I went out there one day and saw this huge mess. Did some searching and found out who controls the dredging of the ditch. Asked why I wasn't notified that they were going to be on my property. They said they notified the previous owner(she was dead, so OK), and their records didn't indicate that the property was sold. So I asked them to update their records and to notify me if they were going to be on the property, as I allow hunting there, we shoot targets often, etc... they said OK......... then it happened again 4-5 years later. I made the calls again. OK. It happened several more times. I've yet to ever been notified that they're going to be on our property in 28 years.

How often have they dredged the ditch since you've been there?

They did ours three years ago, then again just after the floods this spring. It passes through our property, then under a state road through a 6' culvert. There's a 4-5' culvert next to it for overflow. I'm guessing after the floods, they wanted to make sure it stayed clear so it wouldn't wash out the road if the culverts got plugged with trees/debris.

It makes a mess when they come through, that's for sure.

I don't think you're upstream from any designated trout streams. Juday Creek is the only one in the county, besides the St. Joe river. Ours drains into the Kankakee. Depending on which hump of the continental divide you're on, you'll either drain into the St. Joe and the Great Lakes, or you'll drain into the Yellow River and the Gulf of Mexico. The Yellow and the Kankakee meet up west of Knox.

Anyhow, the Yellow (if that's the one you're drain goes to) has been plagued by flooding since I was a kid. If that's a ditch that drains into that watershed, your neighbor could be in for a world of legal hurt if he didn't get approval from the Drainage Board before he did any work.